12-12-2000 12:07									#1
	Roads in Scenearios Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I play OmniGods World map as a scenario and I got a problem. The AI don't seem to build roads. When I start a new game and a random map the AI build roads.

Anybody else that have run into this problem?

/Mathias
[This message has been edited by Matte979 (edited December 12, 2000).]

	12-12-2000 21:47									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The problem is based on the size of the map I believe since the AI doesn't travel too far it decides to build road to certain points only if they require transport... and from what I've seen they build cities rather close to each other, under the threshold for roads... and if they're too far then they can't build them.. it's a win/lose situation... I'm looking to address that, but haven't found the key just yet... if you find it let me know and I'll put a new version out with the quick fix....

Omni

	13-12-2000 02:53									#3
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Messed around with it until i got tired of it.

The reson seems to be the map size. must be some calculation that gets screwed with big maps.
Maybe the can patch it.

/Mathias

	13-12-2000 04:38									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

look out for RoadUtilityBonus in strategies.txt in the aidata folder.....

	13-12-2000 21:55									#5
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I doubled that bonus and still no roads.
I increased all of them to 400..

It works on the standard sizes.
Its on your world map OmniGod, do you have the same problem?

There are problems with larger maps than standard. Must be some error.

[This message has been edited by Matte979 (edited December 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Matte979 (edited December 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Matte979 (edited December 13, 2000).]

	14-12-2000 10:02									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Not sure, but did you increase it for all the categories of just for the default... since I don't think anyone but the barbarians use the default

just a brief thought
Omni

	14-12-2000 10:53									#7
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Solved. My work as systemengineer isn't a total waste.

It has to do with the map size. For it to work the map size has to be a factor 2. Tried to modife the factor in const to the factor used in the world map and no roads. Try to make a big map with factor 2 and it works. Now i wonder if this affect other parts of the game i played alot with Omnigods world map.

Now i need a way to convert it to a factor 2 map or maybe you have some spare time Omni .

/Mathias

	14-12-2000 00:19									#8
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So let me get this right.. you would like a map which has to be 2:1 ratio so that in this case 210 then the height has to be 420? Please tell me there's another way, since I don't want to have to redo all my maps... okay there's only 2 but you get the idea... and by that it means that they'll be much too big and slow every computer down... hmmmm

I hope that's not what you're asking...

Omni

	14-12-2000 01:05									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Wasn't my itention to joke about it, i understand it's a lot of work. I was just happy to find the cause. Your maps great so we badly need some way to get it working.

One more thing i atleast got this problem don't know about everybody else.

There is one thing I will try that is to change the factor in const file. There is first height then width and then a factor maybe you can change that one?

I tried to do it for your world map but seems its a factor 0.933333333333333 so that might be why it didn't work there. But we need to figure this out I for one need maps that arent times 2. Maybe thats why the world map from Activison looks so strange.

This problem raise one more question does this affect other AI behavior?


/Mathias
[This message has been edited by Matte979 (edited December 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Matte979 (edited December 13, 2000).]

	14-12-2000 01:21									#10
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Just tested if you change the size in const you need to change the factor aswell.

So if we could adjust your map to a factor 1 that would be enough.. So 220 220.. Not sure how we do this.

/Mathias

	14-12-2000 02:05									#11
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Okay... with the converting to a factor of 1 causes the system to crash..... I'm at a loss though the game was created as a factor 2 map... 1 alternating tiles across the top to 2 on the side.... if I was to *remake* (ugly word) it to a factor then the size would be 210 x 105 in normal terms... thus a really fat world... there has to be another reason for the error.... starting up a new world may not be a direct comparison to the map I made... but let me poke some more and get back to you...

actually - changing the value ###x### 2 to ###x### 1 had no effect in creating a new map the dimensions were the same if the same numbers were used.... my question is does that second number actually play a part in the game, since I'm not noticing any diference... did it play a part in CTP? That goes out to skorpion... since I figure you'd know...

by the way the map was created 210x150 thus I don't know where .91333 comes from? wouldn't it be either 1.4 or 0.714?

Omni
[This message has been edited by OmniGod (edited December 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by OmniGod (edited December 13, 2000).]

	14-12-2000 02:37									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

OmniGod,
Don't worry, you don't need perfectly square maps. Check out my Alexander scenario- that's both an odd size and larger in total volume than Gigantic size, yet everything works there.

	14-12-2000 02:47									#13
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Thanks... didn't think of that... then what might I ask is up with my map?

Omni

	14-12-2000 03:00									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Omni,

No, it has no bearing on making a map. Only the first 2 do. In fact, in CtP1, within the map files themselves, they were defined as 70,140,2 while CtP2 now only defines them as 70,140.

I believe Activision's official position is maps must be 2:1 but they don't really have to be unless you are creating a flat map. The only gotcha is map sizes must be even.

	14-12-2000 03:20									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Okay I remeasured the final map... I swear that I started with 210x150 but it seems that the final map was 225x210.... I'm still confused about that one the map is an even number isn't it... if you measure tile for tile it's 450 across the top and 210 down the side or does it have to be 224? or am I just looking for something that isn't there??

Omni

Figured out why I thought the map was smaller, it's just that I started one first that was that size then the map I was creating from changed... and I started over with 225x210.... must change that info whereever I have it posted... small oversite only a difference of 63,000 tiles... oops
[This message has been edited by OmniGod (edited December 13, 2000).]

	14-12-2000 17:56									#16
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The problem is that the x devided by y factor seem to be even number. Atleast thats what works for me now i changed the size of gigantic to 220 times 220 and no problems with road building.

Tried to change your map to 220 * 220 but had no luck.
So I started to create a new wolrd map with 220 times 220.. Its hard work. Spent 4 hours and only got the land masses right. Now i have to create the terrain for everything.. phew. Any tips you did a great work with your map any tips?

/Mathias

	14-12-2000 19:35									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

4 hours... and it's accurate? That's impressive... for the land masses themselves it took me near 10 hours, and then another 10 hours to dig out the oceans, build mountains and such.... nope there are no short cuts other than using the cut and paste feature when filling in large squares of land.... it's a long road but in the end you get a really nice map to play with... have you play tested a copy of your map to this point to see if roads will be built... before you get really into it The accuracy of my maps come from a grid pattern that I start with and fill in the land via this pattern. When it's done the grid is removed and presto... an Omni map Just look at the previews I did with the Atlantic map... it's not easy... but fun... painting of a much bigger scale

Omni

BTW - I found a way to rescale my map, and I should have it finished later tonight, if this fixes the problem then great... if not... DAM The rescaled map will be 225x225 just so the width can remain the same... it's the important factor.
[This message has been edited by OmniGod (edited December 14, 2000).]

	15-12-2000 10:53									#18
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You can rescale it? Great that will most likely solve the problem.

I tested my map and the AI players build roads.

You feel like a painter when you create the map. Its fun to see it evolve in the overview window. .

Will you post the map on your site? Because I think my map will take a while and I am dying to play the world map.

/Mathias


[This message has been edited by Matte979 (edited December 14, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Matte979 (edited December 14, 2000).]

	15-12-2000 02:37									#19
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It will be posted.. I'm guessing around 8-10pm EST... see isn't building maps fun... I love the art and design aspect... and finishing it is the best feeling... that's why I'm more pro-person mapmaking than picture converting... sorry Harlan I love personal charm.

Omni

	15-12-2000 07:44									#20
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Okay the map is complete at 225x225 but the same problem persists... they still won't build roads (through 150turns)... are you starting your map from a scenario or is it from the editor? does it make a difference?

Omni

	15-12-2000 16:18									#21
	Remove this text

I have tried it as a scenario.

One thing you. You know the size of the map I think your where regular before. Try to change the regular size to the size of the map 225 * 225 also remember to set the 1 after those numbers in const.txt. I think thats the factor.

My map work is proceding rather nicely. Some problems got south america a little to far below the end of africa. On my map thats how it look. Using an atlas.
Just 10 squares or something. Don't wannt to redo the whole america.

And europe is a little bit bigger realtive other continents and so is north america (Atleast i think so). I guess most people like to play with those areas anyway.

/Mathias

	15-12-2000 21:42									#22
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Ah, you're guestimating the location of places... not an exact science but you'll get a map that you like. I tried 225x225,1 and started a random game.. nothing... going to test 220x220 and 210x210 later... maybe there's a max map size?

Omni