26-02-2000 09:53									#1
	How soon do you go to Democracy? Tired of ads?

I've found that going to Democracy can seriously inhibit my play. The AI will camp troops and stuff all over my territory, and when I send out some forces to run 'em off, the Senate overrules me.

I tend to stay at Monarch for most of the game, which gives me a fair Income/Advance ratio, and allows me to fight when I need to.

Of course, towards the end, I've usually got a hefty military force, so I can go Demo and do the fast building without too much fuss.

Is there any kind of consensus on how soon you should accept Democracy?

Jim W

	26-02-2000 10:45									#2
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Personally Jim, you and I have about the same strategy. I tend to stay a Monarchy myself until around the 1900s. As a general rule, I wait until I have built the Women's Sufferage wonder to change to a Democracy. However, more valuable to your plight is the United Nations (allowing you to declare war 50% of the time).

Another strategy is to build the Statue of Liberty and hold a revoultion when you need to attack another civ. While in anarchy, declare war on the nation and on the next turn (remember, with the Statue of Liberty there is no unrest) go back to being a democracy. If for some other reason those strategies do not work - simply stick with Monarchy until it is absolutely neccessary to democratize. Hope that advice helps!

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

	26-02-2000 13:52									#4
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If you are sticking with Monarchy that long then you should build the Statue and go for Early Commie.Better trade than Monarchy and double martial law effect and very,very little or no corruption.A "suped up" Monarchy basically.

	26-02-2000 17:05									#5
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There is no point in staying with a Monarchy any longer than necessary. As Smash says Communism is a very good option. However, you may wish to consider Fundy if you are in Jim W's position with AI troops crawling over your continent.
l) Set Democracy as your research target, so you can build the SoL.
2) Once built switch to Fundy. (This is a huge advantage over the AI - as it takes hundreds of years for them to gain Fundy by research)
3) Don't worry about the bad science rate. You will have all the techs you need by stealing/conquest/CARAVANS.
4) You will be rich from all the tithes gained from the happiness wonders/improvements. Don't spend all this gold on bribery. Keep building up the temples/colosseums/markets/banks in your cities.
5) After you have cut the AI down to size, plan on changing to a Democracy. Before you switch make sure you have gold in the treasury to rush buy a few colosseums!
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SG (2)

	26-02-2000 17:34									#6
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when the AI camps near your cities, send an emissary and ask it to remove them. It will
remove them or declare war.
If war, go kick its ass leaving a minimum of units outside your cities and forteresses and no more than 1 turn so that cities revolting can go back to normal. If a city is going to riot for a 2nd turn move the workers to trade squarre and increase luxury rate until the city is safe. You might consider building shakspear and homing your units to that city or build women sufrage.

	26-02-2000 19:52									#7
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Consensus?

	27-02-2000 03:28									#8
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As soon as I get the tech. I don't make a beeline towards it. But I do steer towards it when researching. The only time I won't do it if it's still early, and I'm still exploring with tiremes and caravels and my cities are too small to take the happiness hit. It's really annoying I can't have naval vessels to explore in democracy. But if my cities are 7 or higher, I can usually take the unhappiness. I also make sure I'm currently building or have built michelangelos chapel before I overthrow monarchy.

	27-02-2000 06:19									#9
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I had considered, but never tried, the notion of going Demo as soon as possible for the better Science/Tax ratio, then when things get too nasty with the AI all over me, have a revolution and go back to Monarchy for the duration of the War. A much more feasible technique if you have the Statue.

As for going and asking the AI to withdraw, that's not the way it works. You send an emissary, then listen to the demands of the AI Civ. If you keep sending emissaries, eventually they just stop receiving them, and you're stuck with no war and people still crawling all over your mines and farms.

Jim W

	28-02-2000 10:10									#10
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The main problem with democracy is that you can't sustain a war, and support costs shields. Fundamentalism is good, except for science, and we-love days. I get SOL and alternate between. Fundy builds up infrastructure(mkts, aqueducts etc), and accumulates gold. I change to democracy to grow and accelerate science. I like to get that growth in before railroad cancels hanging gardens.

	28-02-2000 23:35									#11
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Have others tried this? When I want to break a peace in democracy, I move a diplomat right next to the AI military units that are near my city, placing it on a square with little or no defensive value. The AI seems to find it hard to resist attacking the diplomat (I haveen't tried this enough to really generalize though). Settlers work too, but losing them is rather more expensive.

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

	29-02-2000 01:20									#12
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I like Smash's approach. I want to get to Democracy as soon as I can and, ideally, that's after I've gotten (1) the wonders that make it easy to live with - WS, UN, and HD - and (2) the infrastructure to capitalize on it - sewers and factories. Communism has all the benes cited plus vet spies - a corps of these is really handy later in the game.

I typically switch to Communism though from Republic. Where I've been to (1) boost my cities to size 8/12 with love and (2) speed up the research to get to Democracy/SOL so I can get away with all this switching.