21-02-2000 18:53									#1
	When can I "Insist" and when not? Remove this text

For the life of me, I can't figure this one out. Why is it that for the early part of a game (SP), I can "Insist that they remove their troops" but later in the game, even when I'm at peace with them, I don't get that option?

It drives me crazy that these bozos are wandering around my territory and moving their little ironclads in and out of my waters at will and there's nothing I can do about it -- except to go to war.

	21-02-2000 19:06									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The "demand to withdraw troops" does not affect ships in your home waters. So AI ironclads can roam anywhere! But so can your navy!
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SG (2)
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited February 21, 2000).]

	21-02-2000 23:53									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Okay, forget about ships and apply the same question to land units. What are the circumstances for being able to "insist"? Sometimes it's an option and other times it's not. Does it have something to do with status (peace vs. cease-fire) or with government type? There's some pattern here that I'm missing too.

	22-02-2000 00:29									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

If you're at peace, you can insist they withdraw, but not during a cease fire. In a democracy or republic, you can't demand tribute tribute for patience. If you just made peace with another civ, you can't ask them to withdraw their troops that same turn, but you can "demand tribute for patience" the same turn you make peace (unless you're a democracy or republic) which usually does get them to withdraw. Does that make sense?

	22-02-2000 01:20									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

And, they must actually be IN one of your cities workable territory.

RAH

	22-02-2000 01:23									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think the AIs can, at their discretion, unilaterally downgrade their relations from "peace" to "contact". When they do this, you can't demand that they withdraw because there's no peace treaty (from their point of view, anyway). If they don't feel like signing a new peace treaty, your only option is to hammer them until they beg for peace.

	22-02-2000 01:45									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Okay, thanks, that makes sense. It's pretty annoying, though, to have 3 or 4 AI units in my city space and not be able to make them withdraw, short of attacking. And when this happens their civ is usually nearby, so bribing can be expensive.

	22-02-2000 03:28									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

DaveV has got it.the ai changes.The higher the level the more this seems to happen.

The diplomacy screen will say peace.But your embassy will say contact.I monitored this recently and the ai civ would change when it wanted to overlap or commit espionage.The ai civ was isolated so no others where coercing them.They could attack no prob but I got the "are you sure....harm our reputation blah blah" when I tried to attack.Usually you have no probs when "contact" status exists

So I was still bound by peace agreements.They were able conduct themselves like "contact only"
It also seems more apt to occur if you are Republic or Democracy....and you know what happens if you risk attacking when this funny stuff is happening.Either the layabout hippie "doves" or collapse

	01-03-2000 20:07									#9
	Suffering from ads?

Also, bear in mind that when you insist they withdraw their troops, they may not respond.

- if their troops in your city radius are also in their city radius, they ignore your city.

- apparently if they are sufficiently annoyed with you, they respond that they have no troops in your city, even when this is a blatant lie.

--toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com