02-03-2000 19:23									#1
	Vet Spys and Stealing Techs Increase the size of your Attachments

I remember in a post by Xin Yu, and I take everything he has to say as gospel, He stated that with Vet spys you could steal multiple techs from a city.
The MP game that I'm currently in, I have vet spys but was not given the option to steal a tech from cities that I had previously taken one from with a diplo. Yet in a previous game with Matt he took two techs from one city in the same turn using diplos. (I had never seen that before) So if anyone can relay their experiences with this, it would be appreciated.

RAH
Lord of the Ferrets

	02-03-2000 21:01									#2
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I thought spies could steal from the same city any number of times. Of course I get the message (in SP) that the city is wise to this after a few times, or something like that. Diplos can steal only one time per city. Does vet make a difference? So, are you talking about spies or diplos?

	03-03-2000 10:45									#3
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I think the answer is: A spy can steal multiple times from a city--if that city hasn't been stolen by a diplo. A diplo-stealing put a flag on the city so no tech can be stolen anymore (even by a different civ). A spy-stealing does not put any flags.

But I'm not 100% sure.

	03-03-2000 10:51									#4
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Vet or not, I've had spies repeatedly steal from the same city. Multiple spies have stolen from the same city on the same turn. After each theft, it gets tougher and tougher - your spies are going to fail often and you just loose them. Of course, your chances are better if you steal anything rather than going after a specific tech.

And on the prevention side, three spies in a city, preferably vets, foil most enemy espionage attempts.

	02-03-2000 23:02									#5
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I don't know if troops in city and city size matters. Try kill all units in the city then start stealing.

	02-03-2000 23:13									#6
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In an OCC game last evening I think I had a spy steal a tech from me even though a dip from a different civ had stolen one earlier. I could be wrong on that, I didn't have the sound on and I was at war when the dip came by.

	02-03-2000 23:28									#7
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Some flags do disappear over time. I once had a civ occupied my city, but after several turns I could not buy it back for half price. I wonder there is a small chance each turn to eliminate the 'previous civ' flag. This could be also true for 'tech stolen' flag, or even trade merchandise availability.

	03-03-2000 00:01									#8
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RAH:

what you have to do is use the stacked movement option to move both dips into the city at the same time.

Just kidding. The dips came from the same boat in that game, but they stole from 2 different cities.

	03-03-2000 00:43									#9
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Playing MP against the AI, my experience is this; once a spy has stolen a tech, you can try again but cannot specify the target. Obviously, the risk of the spy being caught increases. Whether the spy is vet, or not, only affects her chances of survival.
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SG (2)

	03-03-2000 00:44									#10
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Last night in a MP game, I was able to steal a science from a city with a diplo, even though a somebody elses diplo had already done so. In discussing it with Rah, it was a city he JUST took from another player. So maybe when you take a city, it clears the diplo flag (heck, I was happy to just find a city I could steal something from )

	03-03-2000 00:47									#11
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Thanks Matt, that one has been bugging me for months. (Especially trying to replicate it)

RAH

	03-03-2000 00:49									#12
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Does that mean if you had put a size 2, non-defended city close to Bird, he would not dare to occupy it?

	03-03-2000 01:03									#13
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I agree with SG avout veteranity: it only affects her chance to get or not the tech (and eventually survive)

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Hodad's First Body
Alien Infiltrate

	03-03-2000 06:07									#14
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did you guys ask Xin on how to beat me

and whats this with flags and dips and stealing ????? i dont' understand what the flags mean.... ithought flags meant there were troops in the city

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It's clobberin time!!
- The Thing from the Fantastic Four

	03-03-2000 06:31									#15
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They didn't. That's why they let you win . I can't believe one can beat three. They must be way way back in techs. I would definately try something. Like build a dozen of battleships, using spies to sabotage costal fortress then navy-bombard. Capture the city, take laser (or even better, robotics so I can send spies to plant nuke).

	03-03-2000 08:02									#16
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Sounds fine on paper xin, but I only had one battleship built by the time he nuked me. No way, no how, was that going to work. He had such a huge science advantage over me that I had to decide whether to try to defend against the expected bombers, howies or nukes. He had them all, and I could only choose one path to take -- SAMS, lasers, or get my own howies so I could counterattack his ground forces. And I was getting techs at minimum every two turns, occasionally every turn.

But you're right, three can't beat one. That's not what happened, though, imo. People made assessments as the game progressed as to who the threats were and reacted accordingly. The threats changed, though, and in the end you sometimes have to pick your poison. Throughout the game, rah was the wild card. I was in no position to effectively attack War4, but had to devote tremendous resources to defend against him. When rah was focused on me, War4 raced ahead. When rah turned his attention to War4, I had time to regroup a bit and didn't hear a peep out of War4 for quite awhile Unfortunately, War4 had already managed to get too far ahead in those crucial late game techs, and if he hadn't been careless enough to let rah take those cities (it's unfortunate they don't have the Civ I replay, b/c I would like to have seen that), this game would have been over even quicker.

I asked rah to let me steal laser, but he wouldn't let me.

	03-03-2000 11:47									#17
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Rah made a brilliant move strategically and made me suffer........ he let me off the hook though and the nuke came out of the closet...... iguess i am a true warmonger.....


I know many of you hate nukes .....LOL but when you are the one with them ...... its hard not to take advantage of it

Still..... you got to do what you got to do.... i would do the same thing every game if i had the option....... I felt like the USA in 45 against Japan....... i had the ultimate weapon and i used it i think all of you would do the same...... sure i was researching space flight but i wasn't in the position to build the ship especially with the untrustworthy ferrets on my doorstep

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It's clobberin time!!
- The Thing from the Fantastic Four

	03-03-2000 19:03									#19
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MWHC... Brilliant thinking as usual.
A very interesting concept. If this discussion is true, you have just come up with a perfect way to protect yourself later in the game when sciences can become really important. Granted, you can always take an enemy city to get a science... but that's a lot more difficult than rolling a spy up to them.
By the way, I think you can steal in an alliance... the victim has a choice of whether to be pissed or not... People, please correct me if I'm wrong

	03-03-2000 21:59									#20
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MWHC: I was aware of that. But as game proceeds you will get espionage and cannot build diplos anymore. Now every new city or occupied city will be a problem. Is it wise to waset a dozen of diplos early in the game? And there's another factor: the Great Library. A diplo may blindly steal a tech which could be the one you don't want to share with your ally at the moment.

I think when time is right you can do it for a couple of cities, but not all of them.