26-02-2000 03:43									#1
	Is OCC easier than regular games? Suffering from ads?

I’ve been on holiday this week and have played a number of games. I played OCC five times and landed every time(between 1781 and 1930). Then I switched to regular games. The first time I had to go for a Fundamentalist conquor because my tech advances were too slow, and in my second game I just gave up in the 1800s when I realized I’d never get to AC or conquor because my riflemen were confronted by the Zulu’s airplanes.

What am I doing wrong?

	26-02-2000 04:20									#2
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IMHO - YES a lot!
I too have no difficulty 'winning?' ie beating the AI at OCC - The no holds barred games are MUCH harder - I still generally 'win', but don't feel that I could be doing a lot better - which i do at OCC.

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	26-02-2000 04:58									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

LoL! Remember when we weren't even sure that OCC was possible! Now it is easier, and I agree. (and I do play it in MGE)
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited March 06, 2000).]

	26-02-2000 06:28									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

Hoss,
I've had the same experience. I think the additional cities are liabilities given given a Super Science City. You have to defend them and the AI has more possibilities to steal from your Civ. Still....playing multi-city games are fun in a different sort of way.

AU

	27-02-2000 02:19									#5
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Well, I think it depends on who you are playing OCC with. I have found that it is tough when playing against another human, and having to worry about keeping peace with all the a/i civs!

	28-02-2000 10:13									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If you win OCC at deity, you are playing very well. I find it takes some luck to get a decent city site.

	28-02-2000 11:06									#7
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I find OCC far easier.

Graag

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	29-02-2000 00:19									#8
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To me the thing about OCC that is easier is the Happiness factor. Once you Build Shakespeare's theatre you are practically immune to it. That is the hardest part of the game at Deity for me, dealing with the unhappiness while trying to expand the size of your civ.

In OCC, there is none of that, you just build the Shakespeare wonder, and no more unhappy citizens, ever.

	29-02-2000 02:22									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Geo - a good site is important, no doubt. But once you have a good site, then OCC is easier than most other strategies (on diety).
Like Drago says, the happiness factor is very important. If you have more than a 8-10 cities you are spending a lot of time & effort just keeping the people happy.



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Will everyone stop bloody quoting everyone else in their signature damnit. - Graag

	29-02-2000 10:42									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

Geo,
Of course the problem of finding a good site is eliminated when you play one of the comparison games. They set you up in a sweet spot. But even if you play a random map, it doesn’t take that long to find a few specials to found your city near. You can quickly make up the lost turns spent wandering. From then on its just a matter of following the formula (get the right wonders and follow the right tech path) to win.

	29-02-2000 10:44									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

To everyone who’s posted here,
Glad you all seem to agree with me. I thought I was doing something wrong. I’d had no trouble winning at the lower levels, but wasn’t prepared for the unhappiness problems at deity From reading earlier posts I was able to craft together a strategy to finally win an AC game. Thanks to all of you who did it before me and put your advice up here at Apolyton

	29-02-2000 23:49									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

The part of OCC I have difficulty with is keeping rivals away from your city. If you can find a spot with a choke point, it is easy. If not, the ai builds an overlapping city. I can't keep alliances forever, and I find it hard to defend while trying to get the ss off. This seems to be even more important than a city with maximum specials.

	02-03-2000 00:55									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

I wonder if map size has as much to do with it as OCC. OCC is always played on small maps, and the AI never seems to amount to much. That is, they never get their cities up above size 12, and never discover more than 6 or 7 techs amongsn't themselves (I give them all my techs as I discover them). I just finished that medium map comparison game that DaveV put together, and found the AIs became a lot more powerful. They still had only 6 or 7 cities each, but they were getting up to size 20, and they discovered a lot of techs for me (I received 39 techs in trade from the AIs).

Maybe it's time ot play OCC on medium maps

	06-03-2000 23:37									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think OCC is much more a challenge if you are using MPGE (Multi Player Gold Edition)instead of v2.42. The AI in MPGE is much more hostile and can go from Worshipful to Uncooperative in one turn. If you want a harder OCC challenge, load up MPGE and see if you can even get the AI to swap maps with you!

	07-03-2000 01:44									#15
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Research moves faster on small maps than medium-Medium faster than large.I can't remember the exact numbers.Since many of you are routinely landing in 1700s and early 1800s perhaps its time to move up to medium maps.The Specials tend to be fewer the bigger you go so finding a spot might be even more difficult.Perhaps the next "fortnight" should be on a medium map.


The biggest advantages 2.42ers have on MGEers is(1) the amount of gold you can get out of ai civs and (2) not having to defend against unit after unit.This allows more time for infastructure,wonders and caravans

slightly less total beakers required in MGE but I think the inability to maintain relations far outweighs this.

	07-03-2000 04:13									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

My last attempt at OCC, on a map I designed btw, is a testament to how difficult the AI can make life for you. Granted I had chosen an awful tech route as a test of hut popping, and I have had good luck with MGE in the past for OCC games. When did I land? 1980 or something.

The key to me in MGE is not to hut chase and disband units if you are supreme, don't ever break an alliance and try to keep the other civs balanced.

	07-03-2000 05:19									#17
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well in the comparison games, MGE isn't really all that difficult.... but your right about the ai being downright hostile and rude. v242 is much easier but then , why bother as we want a challenge.

Random sites are obviously the real challenge as well, as most comparison games are quite easy to beat.

I agree that a med map appears to be the next step for OCC.... i think most of us have pretty much exhausted the small map. Its no longer am i going to win , its do i have a chance at pauls record : not likely but one can hope.

so i propose all new OCC games be on med maps and i am sure the frustration level will rise here at apolyton.

I wonder if one can win on a large map??? has anyone ever tried this or is this out of our league at this point?

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	07-03-2000 05:30									#18
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Paul won very early on both maps, but I can't remember the years. From the 200 turn landings that people are doing now, I would think that OCC with just Apollo is very doable on a small map. In MGE I would definately want a choke point!

	07-03-2000 17:25									#19
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I'd prefer to see us using a larger map than getting rid of wonders (I like wonders ). The AI seems more competent at larger maps, which would make life more interesting. The tech rate doesn't seem to slow that much on a larger map. In SG1's huge map comparison (which I tried OCC mode), my research rate later in the game was generally 3 turns. That's only going to add 40-50 turns to your launch date.

	10-03-2000 05:45									#20
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There's a lot to be said for ignorance! When I first heard of the OCC, I didn't know you should use small maps so I played it with my usual settings: large map, 7 civs, deity, raging hordes. I finally made it to AC on 2008, but got REAL discouraged at the thought of all those people who reported launching in the 1800's. I figured I was an idiot and moved on to other things. LOL!