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KhanMan
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Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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This follows in the same stream as Vespasian's "Hypothetical Situations" threads, with one difference: it describes a situation that happened to me when I was new to MP, and as yet unlearned in the points of ettiquette. IMHO, I made the wrong choice, but I want to know what other people would have done in my shoes.
Situation:
You have been allied with the largest civ since near the beginning of the game. (traded techs, maps, etc.). You are currentl the third largest civ, with your ally (the largest civ) currently winning by a long shot (controlling 1/3 the world, ownly most of the important wonders).
Because the world has mostly been conquered, and all seven human civs are well entrenched, your expanssion oportunities are limited. Your ally's civ, however, has a lightly guarded area along your border.
You have just been approached by the second largest civ, who points out how large a lead your ally has, and asks if you would be willing to join in a foru-human-civ surprize attack at a later point.
What do you do? Support your ally, tell him of the plot, and ensure his victory? Betray your ally, and attack him when the others do? Or sit on the sidelines, and pick off whomever you can? Or would you do something else?
-KhanMan
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KhanMan
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Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Will do, from now on...
I only hope the one I wronged has had enough time to forgive me by now...since I'm hoping to be back at mp gaming for two weeks, starting this Saturday...
-KhanMan
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My Wife Hates CIV
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Michigan
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Well I disagree. This is not the real world but a CIV world. There is an end game and only one winner. What, am I supposed to just play along while someone else takes the win?? No. If you see a weakness and it's at a point in the game where something must happen (no more room for expansion...) than make your move. The CIV your allied with should know this also and be ready. If they are not than you may not want to be allied with them anyway. Is this back stabbing? I don't think so. If the game never ended than yeah, maybe. Perhaps you could warn your the person your allied with. Give him say a couple of turns. This is being pretty nice IMHO.
But! if your playing with a group that can't forgive and forget from the last game than perhaps you should not attack your allie. IMHO this takes something away from the game.
[This message has been edited by My Wife Hates CIV (edited March 05, 2000).]
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That's why your advisor says "Strong and Unhonorable", Steve.
[This message has been edited by SlowHand (edited March 08, 2000).]
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My Wife Hates CIV
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Michigan
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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I dont play with those who can't forget about a past game. If you only trust based on past games than it's going to be a boring 'lets race through the tech tree building wonders weeeeee' game (gezz, play the AI for that). It's fun to mix it up. If your going to hold it against me for all time to come than forget it.
If I bust an alliance in a game than yeah, treat me like scum for *that* game.
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KhanMan
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Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Garth-Unfortunately, I was in no position to attack anyone else by land, except for my original ally. This, and the fact that I had a fairly small navy, but a descent army, led me to the mistaken belief that Makeo would be easy prey...of course, since one of my "new" "allies" turncoated to his side, I guess I deserved the beatdown that followed...
War-That's my new mp motto: alliances are forever, or at least until mutually decided to terminated...
-KM
Thrice dead my Makeo's Aztec-horde...long life the Greek losers! 
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K - Have you just been playing Makeo or is that an old game? Where is the bugger?
Still in the States, I know, but is he MP civving??
------------------
*THE DEITY*
#8388924
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So what's being said is many consider alliances that exist only as long as it benefits them, and regardless of number of past transgressions involving trust, don't consider that in future games.
I want what you're smoking.
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inca911
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St. Paul, MN
Jan 2000
time: 05:12
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Every war, treaty, and alliance should have a purpose or else why engage in any of them? The current purpose of your alliance is to guarantee someone else wins the game--that doesn't quite sound right to me! An alliance is only as strong as the fear of retribution that may occur if you break it. If you can take some cities from your main rival, and not get too beat up--go for it! The only thing you have to lose is second place!
If you have been allied with the #1 civ throughout the course of the game and you are not close to being his equal, you should have dumped the alliance a long time ago and allied with some lower civs to break his power base.
Perhaps you can prepare a plan with the other civs to destroy his ship and still win the space race? With 2 difference civs using all their production to make howies/dips for a siege of his spaceship city, you should have an OK chance of burning it. Then you and #2 can fight out the space race. Besides, if you can get a few cities from him, the playing field should become a lot more level.
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KhanMan
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Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Iadkins-I have no idea what's up with Makeo...I think SmartFart mentioned him leaving a while back...
The game I played was almost exactly one year ago...my first three mp games, I died by Makeo's hand after some form of betrayal, trickery, or shady conduct. After that, I decided to take time off to strategize, and plan my moves and views more carefully...
In the game I mentioned, though, I must say I was somewhat of a spiteful loser...after Makeo rebribed the city I took, he hit my two border cities with 20+ cannon, rolled over them. Next turn I gave all my cities but the capital to my strongest ally, the vikings...unfortunately, they restarted...would have been interesting to see Makeo cope with a true three-front-war...
KhanMan the reformed
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Inca, and others.
If you were allied with the strongest nation, I'm sure reaped benefit from this association. Then the time comes when you decide to discount the alliance.
You deserve the thrashing you may well receive. 
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Vespasian
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Reno, Nevada, United States of America
Nov 1999
time: 05:12
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I usually wouldn't get into this situation, as I usually follow the Metternich Method of Diplomacy, using smaller states to band together against behemoths.
However, were I in your position, I would pretend to go along with the plan, confer it with my ally, and launch a massive raid against various points they have been developing for war. It's risky, using your resources in such a way, but the greatest fighters have also been gamblers.
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"On ne peut pas apprendre la chance si on n'est pas hardii."-Napolean
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KhanMan
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Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Vespasian-While that would have worked under different circumstances, the geography of that game made it next impossible. No one had anything past tremeres, as far as naval techs went, and we were basically at the cannon-rifleman-dragoon level for armies.
The positioning was bad too. The metaphor would be Norther Scotland, Wales, and Cornwall attacking England. (or Californian, Florida, Alaska and Maine taking on the rest of the US): we could all attack Makeo, but shared no common land borders amongst ourselves...
Also, if I tried to take the Vikings (the nearest human civ besides Makeo) down, it would have failed horribly...there was enough no-mans-land in between Makeo's Aztec Empire and the Vikings (under ariitea, if memory serves me right?) that I would have been slaughtered...
Anyway, just thought I'd share that...
-KhanMan the paranoid expansionist
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05-03-2000 08:26
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