12-01-2001 07:09									#31
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hmmm...... having trouble getting AI to build diplos. If I give him a diplo, he gets stuck in diplo. However on the plus side, I actually got this request from the Greeks:

- They requested 200 gold in a haughty tone.
- I refused.
- They threatened war.
- I still refused.
- They declared war.

After declaring war, they sent a couple of stacks at me, which I brushed off and they requested a cease-fire.

This is the weekends goals:

1 - Make the AI build diplos.
2 - Make the AI pursue diplo functions as per their government (communist with other communist, repub with other repubs, etc) Birds of a feather flock together basically.
3 - Make the AI pursue diplo functions based on their personality. Eg. Militarilist leaders pursue demands/threats. Scientists pursue advances/research pacts. Etc.

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	12-01-2001 10:54									#32
	Remove this text

I like the way people are approaching AI changes. Set goals then try to achieve them. I think we have a great opportunity to recreate CtP2 as a playable game.

Keep the ideas flowing.

------------------
History is written by the victor.

	13-01-2001 10:11									#33
	Tired of ads?

Dale - Your changes are encouraging. You might want to communicate what you are doing and what you've found with Wes as he is seeking input on what changes ot make to create a revised mod pack.

------------------
'Blood will run'

	14-01-2001 07:52									#34
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Have got the diplomacy mod happening well, intertwined with Blueo's frenzy mod (See general forum for teaser readme). It is however, the ai.slc I downloaded last friday, so the script may have errors. Since I don't have a website, who wants to host the zip file for me?

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	15-01-2001 18:29									#35
	Remove this text

Dale, I could do it for you, I will send you an email

	15-01-2001 20:59									#36
	Put an end to popups!

Ready for ddl on King Arthur's Court... I'll try the mod later tonight. But just from reading into some of the changes it looks really good... nice job Dale.

Rich

	16-01-2001 03:30									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Am emailing version 2.1 of the mod to Rich this morning. Here's a short rundown of changes from 2.0:

- Name change to Diplomod 2.1.
- Made it generic, should work with any other mods, not just frenzy AI.
- Supports frenzy AI 1.02 (just a little change of the script is needed)
- Cleaner and meaner.

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	16-01-2001 04:33									#38
	Remove this text

dale,
I'm glad someone is looking at the diplomatic aspects of the game. however, your mod makes the AI way too timid. Since the AI still insists on infringing on my borders with new cities, its been a tactic of mine to demand sale of these cities before they become too much of a nuisance. On occasion I hit the wrong button and no offer of payment is included in the demand. Today when i did this, instead of receiving a rejection, the AI accepted. In fact, i realized that they accept EVERYTHING. So, I demanded their largest city with no payment. They happily agreed, at which point I demanded every city of every civ I had contact with. I now control 1/2 the world without firing a shot or paying a dollar. Before that, I was getting offers to exchange maps every 4 or 5 turns. I'm looking forward to more realistic diplomacy, can this be fixed without undoing everything?

------------------
History is written by the victor.

	16-01-2001 05:59									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Thanks for the feedback Alpha Wolf. I'll look into it.

Edit: I've found the problem. I used a "Consider" statement when I should've used a "Change" statement. Will fix for version 2.3

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."
[This message has been edited by Dale (edited January 15, 2001).]

	16-01-2001 15:35									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Great work guys - does anybody know where I can get my hand on these mods?

Cheers

	16-01-2001 19:40									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ahmmmm... *cough* http://ctp2.homestead.com *cough*

	17-01-2001 01:29									#42
	Increase Your PM Length

Eagerly waiting for Version 2.3.

	17-01-2001 02:42									#43
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Got a frog in ya throat Rich?

BTW, expect v2.3 (maybe v3.0 if I re-write the lot) after the weekend. I'm starting to code the full AI diplo-handling routines. In previous versions I left it to the program to handle the considerations, but now I've got the mod-skeleton I'm going to add them in.

The AI diplo-handling routines will be the ones that look at the current position and force a proposal/response based on that analysis.

EG. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmm, nice border-city. I'll extort that." Player[a] sends player[b] a request_give_city. Player[b] looks at the proposal and says "Hang on a second, he receives THIS bonus, and I receive THIS bonus. My bonus is less so I'll counter-request." Player[b] sends player[a] a counter-request for GOLD equalling value of CITY. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmmm...... I don't have much gold left so NO SALE!" and refuses counter-proposal. BTW, I got this routine running. It seemed like the easiest to do. Obviously, if player[b] receives a 'gift' proposal it's gunna say "Cool! Free stuff!" and accept.

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	17-01-2001 03:56									#45
	Tired of ads?

One suggestion I would make is to take a look at the while Gift offer. Getting a free city can be a VERY bad thing.

In SMAC you could cripple the AI by giving faction A a city of yours that is about to be overrun by faction B. Faction B is going to take that city, even if they are allied with faction A. You could keep doing this and always keep everyone fighting.

If it is possible, I would suggest that the AI consider the diplomatic status outcome for accepting a free city. If the sender is at war with a faction that shares a border with the gift city, then the AI should probably turn down the free city offer.

I have no idea what is possible through modifying the text files, so if this is too complex to implement, no big deal. It would be good to close that kind of loophole though.

	16-01-2001 05:35									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Has anyone had any luck in controlling how the AI deploys units during a battle?

It always seems that my weakest unit is in the middle. Boats and special units to often fill the front row. I just had a 12 stack of hoplites/catapults/mounted archers defeated my a city defended by 6 coracles and 6 archers. in another battle, 2 hoplites were defeated by 2 slavers/2 arhcers because the slavers were in front and the archers were able to use their ranged attack. Also it seems that the battle AI doesnt understand that units with a shorter range should be in front. In some other post it was discussed that 2 archers would line up next to each other if they attack a single unit. I gave mounted archers less range and attacked a single unit with 1 archer/1 mounted. They still lined up next to each other. being that i've never played thru to tanks, does that mean all future warfare is fought in a line? Also many of my flankers seem to end up in the middle of the line while non flankers are on the end.

Anyone else notice any screwy battle lines?

------------------
History is written by the victor.

	12-01-2001 07:09									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hmmm...... having trouble getting AI to build diplos. If I give him a diplo, he gets stuck in diplo. However on the plus side, I actually got this request from the Greeks:

- They requested 200 gold in a haughty tone.
- I refused.
- They threatened war.
- I still refused.
- They declared war.

After declaring war, they sent a couple of stacks at me, which I brushed off and they requested a cease-fire.

This is the weekends goals:

1 - Make the AI build diplos.
2 - Make the AI pursue diplo functions as per their government (communist with other communist, repub with other repubs, etc) Birds of a feather flock together basically.
3 - Make the AI pursue diplo functions based on their personality. Eg. Militarilist leaders pursue demands/threats. Scientists pursue advances/research pacts. Etc.

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	12-01-2001 10:54									#48
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I like the way people are approaching AI changes. Set goals then try to achieve them. I think we have a great opportunity to recreate CtP2 as a playable game.

Keep the ideas flowing.

------------------
History is written by the victor.

	13-01-2001 10:11									#49
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Dale - Your changes are encouraging. You might want to communicate what you are doing and what you've found with Wes as he is seeking input on what changes ot make to create a revised mod pack.

------------------
'Blood will run'

	14-01-2001 07:52									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Have got the diplomacy mod happening well, intertwined with Blueo's frenzy mod (See general forum for teaser readme). It is however, the ai.slc I downloaded last friday, so the script may have errors. Since I don't have a website, who wants to host the zip file for me?

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	15-01-2001 18:29									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Dale, I could do it for you, I will send you an email

	15-01-2001 20:59									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ready for ddl on King Arthur's Court... I'll try the mod later tonight. But just from reading into some of the changes it looks really good... nice job Dale.

Rich

	16-01-2001 03:30									#53
	Inflate your Upload Space

Am emailing version 2.1 of the mod to Rich this morning. Here's a short rundown of changes from 2.0:

- Name change to Diplomod 2.1.
- Made it generic, should work with any other mods, not just frenzy AI.
- Supports frenzy AI 1.02 (just a little change of the script is needed)
- Cleaner and meaner.

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	16-01-2001 04:33									#54
	Inflate your Upload Space

dale,
I'm glad someone is looking at the diplomatic aspects of the game. however, your mod makes the AI way too timid. Since the AI still insists on infringing on my borders with new cities, its been a tactic of mine to demand sale of these cities before they become too much of a nuisance. On occasion I hit the wrong button and no offer of payment is included in the demand. Today when i did this, instead of receiving a rejection, the AI accepted. In fact, i realized that they accept EVERYTHING. So, I demanded their largest city with no payment. They happily agreed, at which point I demanded every city of every civ I had contact with. I now control 1/2 the world without firing a shot or paying a dollar. Before that, I was getting offers to exchange maps every 4 or 5 turns. I'm looking forward to more realistic diplomacy, can this be fixed without undoing everything?

------------------
History is written by the victor.

	16-01-2001 05:59									#55
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Thanks for the feedback Alpha Wolf. I'll look into it.

Edit: I've found the problem. I used a "Consider" statement when I should've used a "Change" statement. Will fix for version 2.3

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."
[This message has been edited by Dale (edited January 15, 2001).]

	16-01-2001 15:35									#56
	Inflate your Upload Space

Great work guys - does anybody know where I can get my hand on these mods?

Cheers

	16-01-2001 19:40									#57
	Remove this text

Ahmmmm... *cough* http://ctp2.homestead.com *cough*

	17-01-2001 01:29									#58
	Inflate your Upload Space

Eagerly waiting for Version 2.3.

	17-01-2001 02:42									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Got a frog in ya throat Rich?

BTW, expect v2.3 (maybe v3.0 if I re-write the lot) after the weekend. I'm starting to code the full AI diplo-handling routines. In previous versions I left it to the program to handle the considerations, but now I've got the mod-skeleton I'm going to add them in.

The AI diplo-handling routines will be the ones that look at the current position and force a proposal/response based on that analysis.

EG. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmm, nice border-city. I'll extort that." Player[a] sends player[b] a request_give_city. Player[b] looks at the proposal and says "Hang on a second, he receives THIS bonus, and I receive THIS bonus. My bonus is less so I'll counter-request." Player[b] sends player[a] a counter-request for GOLD equalling value of CITY. Player[a] looks at player[b] and says "Hmmm...... I don't have much gold left so NO SALE!" and refuses counter-proposal. BTW, I got this routine running. It seemed like the easiest to do. Obviously, if player[b] receives a 'gift' proposal it's gunna say "Cool! Free stuff!" and accept.

------------------
Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."