09-02-2001 02:57									#181
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

John:
As far as I knew peace treaties don't give you any other agreements. I know the icons don't show up on the intelligence screen, but I may be wrong. Great, now I'm all confused........

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	07-02-2001 02:26									#182
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Here is a thread to ask questions about topics not covered in the "Conversations" thread. Please restrict your questions to AI behavior. To my knowledge, Richard can't do anything about bugs or multi-player problems.

	07-02-2001 07:13									#183
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I've noticed that wars between AIs will too frequently cease as soon as I land on their continent with any military units. I just wanted to create a little foothold to get a better view of their war to see how they fight among themselves. I'd been watching many cities change hands by sound (marching boots) and by city borders changing. As soon as I landed, both sides fortified and the war seemed to end. Was this probably just coincedence, or a game design?

Second, how can I keep the barbarians from ever changing out of the barbarian strategy? Altho I'd like them to minimally build garrisons and buildings when they capture a city, I mainly want them to pump out tons of units. My latest theory is that they seem to change to the default strategy as soon as they get a few cities and/or I build the great wall. I do love seeing the Vandals and Visigoths I must admit and had given a small ability to them in the barbarian strategy to expand. They also tend to become totally passive thus my theory that they've changed strategies to default.

Thirdly, how can we force barbs and AI units to stack before they attack? I just had 2 stacks of barbs attack one by one instead of forming an army. Being that rally is part of siege and attack i would have expected the entire stack to have attacked together.

Thanks.

------------------
History is written by the victor.
[This message has been edited by Alpha Wolf (edited February 07, 2001).]

	07-02-2001 09:54									#184
	Increase Your PM Length

Can he help out on the adding terrain ideas that I had in the creation forum? Or who can I get in contact with for that, if anyone?

	08-02-2001 06:21									#185
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

AW, this paste fron the strategies.txt should answer your second question.

STRATEGY_BARBARIAN {

// must inherit from default
Inherit STRATEGY_DEFAULT

This means that the Bars will use the default settings unless new ones are listed in their section.

	08-02-2001 23:31									#187
	Support Apolyton

Sorry, wrong thread.
[This message has been edited by Locutus (edited February 08, 2001).]

	06-02-2001 13:43									#190
	Tired of ads?

I figured out why the AI starts dropping behind at a certain point. I never realized it before but, I shoot way ahead at the same point I start building trading posts and bazaars. I went thru some old saved games just to see what AI cities looked like. Many of the civs had built no buildings at all. So as long as everyone was purely living off the land, the AIs were ahead. In the BuildListSequences file I added a new BuildingBuildList called Start that immediately follows the garrison list. In it is city walls, granary, bazaar, academy, mill and factory. At least every city will now have the minimum. I may add other buildings as I see them being necessities. This should also help the AI since they wont be building wonders so early and with walls can defend against the barbarians better. I also added 5 prod to trading posts in forests/jungles/mountains to represent wood mills and stone quarries. I added trading post to the
improvement list under production so the AI should build more now, helping both their prod and gold.

As I always feared, the AI doesnt understand city size limits. Some small cities had aquaducts because they were on the growth strategy. Some of the military and science civs NEEDED them but wouldnt build them. in my game, I had also lowered the % of AI specialists to 10%, and had lowered the specialist from 30 to 20. I'm going to have to relook at that and make their largest cities dedicate more scientists and factory workers since they are all working the land, but not growing, so in essence those workers are wasted. I may have to strategically add all the city limit increasers to every build list so no matter what the AI is playing it wont neglect city growth limits. Under the Gold strategy, i notice that freight is second on the list, this is way too high as I've noticed that some civs change trades routes almost every turn and never seem to be lacking the caravans needed to do so. That means they wasted alot of prod building those caravans which just sit waiting to be used. Anyone ever notice any kind of caravan limit in any file?

------------------
History is written by the victor.

	06-02-2001 21:30									#191
	Remove this text

I've noticed that the AI did not place a high priority on building Trading Posts. I normally build a lot of them, so I do well economically. Adding a production boost only helps me out further.

I remember this being an issue in the MedMod for CTP1. Wes added mines to be built in forests, but the AI seemed incapable of building them.

There's a tile impovement build list in the default game that only has the basic elements; Farm, Mine and so forth. Shouldn't that list be filled out with all of the tile improvements? I was looking at that list earlier, and it seem a little thin. I believe that there weren't even any of the Net improvememts on that list, but the AI seemed to have no trouble building nets so I didn't do anything with it.

And with the edit you made to the BuildingBuildList.txt file is there any other file you need to edit so the AI will use that sequence? (Dumb question, I'm sure, but I'm still learning...)


[This message has been edited by hexagonian (edited February 06, 2001).]

	07-02-2001 12:37									#193
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Success!!! The AIs were surrounded by trading posts on their mountains. Hmmm, maybe I should but trading post first in the build list so it'll build mines (assuming that the list means top has lower priority). Between that and them building bazaars, I'm way behind in gold and science now

On a new note, you might need to lower the war discontent. I had to build a fairly good sized army to defend against the barbs, and all my cities were extremely unhappy about it. Aint that typical, ya build an army to protect them and they complain...ungrateful cretins I'm assuming that the AI is similiarly afflicted.

------------------
History is written by the victor.

	07-02-2001 19:52									#194
	Tired of ads?

Sounding good.

I tried to link up to your site, but its not active anymore.

Got a favor to ask. Could you send me the files that you altered for the trading post fix.(or did you just enter trading posts into the BuildImprovement list - if so, then don't bother. The boost for production is an easy enough fix - as long as I can get the AI to use them I will make that boost too.

And the BuildingBuildList file for the City Improvement sequence (or at least the entry) I want to make sure I have the verbage correct.

I would guess that the lists work in descending order, as the more advancesd stuff is at the bottom of the lists, so placing trading posts before mines might make the AI bypass building them to build mines instead.

Would you also be interested in taking on the challenge of boosting the AI for my Cradle Mod. I have been implementing stuff as I see it on the forums, and your tips have been very good. This mod is currently being playtested, with generally good reports, but it definitely needs tweaking in some areas. As I see it, you have a wealth of practical knowledge with your experimenting, and a look at my files would be much appreciated, to catch some changes that definitely need to be made.

My initial goal has been to implement improvements outside of Slic (as I have no ability in that area)

I have sent version 1.02 to OmniGods website, and can email you the text files to look at too, if you are interested.

All work will be credited in the public release.
[This message has been edited by hexagonian (edited February 07, 2001).]

	08-02-2001 08:13									#196
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

FTP site is functional again...dang case sensitivity

------------------
History is written by the victor.

	08-02-2001 19:53									#197
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Thanks - Make sure you read the posts about the Mod to get an idea what is happening.

	06-02-2001 19:43									#199
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I am currently playing at Very Hard on Gigantic with 8 Civs.

Ok, now there are 7 civs, because those nice Australians gave me all their cities when I asked them nicely.

Running

// Dale's diplomacy script to make AI do diplomacy with itself.
//
// Modified to include BlueOrange's FRENZY AI script.
//
// Version 2 - 14-Jan-2001
[/list]


Am I alone in thinking this a bit too nice? who of you would happily give away all his cities (will the game allow you to do that???)

Is this fixed in version 3?

	06-02-2001 23:42									#200
	Tired of ads?

The version 3.2 final has fixed this problem. They don't give you $&^# now And that's a good thing

	07-02-2001 03:44									#201
	Tired of ads?

Yeah, you can't get squat.

Also, I put in special code so if it sees it's Omni on the other side of the screen it won't even give him maps.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	09-02-2001 10:44									#202
	Increase Your PM Length

Kull,
That IS big news on the Civ2 front, especially the gigamaps which make me wonder how a giga-Europe might look.

As for denigrating C2 mod efforts, it is important to realise that their efforts were only viewed unfavourably compared to the greater effort of ridding the underachieving and user-unfriendly CTP2 (although the type of differances in the game you discussed may take similar depths of advanced technical knowledge - I don't know). Without any point of reference, I would like to make it clear that C2 modifiers added 12 months onto the life of C2 for me and my circle of friends (prior to the multi-player version) without ever asking me for a penny.

As I seem to be in the business of handing out pats on the back, I hope you and your fellow C2 modifyers will accept one as well Lots of games receive fan support, but Civ, in all it's incarnations, has attracted some of the most intelligent and generous people to it over the years.

Regards
John
[This message has been edited by John Barbarossa (edited February 08, 2001).]

	09-02-2001 02:57									#203
	Suffering from ads?

John:
As far as I knew peace treaties don't give you any other agreements. I know the icons don't show up on the intelligence screen, but I may be wrong. Great, now I'm all confused........

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	07-02-2001 02:26									#204
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Here is a thread to ask questions about topics not covered in the "Conversations" thread. Please restrict your questions to AI behavior. To my knowledge, Richard can't do anything about bugs or multi-player problems.

	07-02-2001 07:13									#205
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I've noticed that wars between AIs will too frequently cease as soon as I land on their continent with any military units. I just wanted to create a little foothold to get a better view of their war to see how they fight among themselves. I'd been watching many cities change hands by sound (marching boots) and by city borders changing. As soon as I landed, both sides fortified and the war seemed to end. Was this probably just coincedence, or a game design?

Second, how can I keep the barbarians from ever changing out of the barbarian strategy? Altho I'd like them to minimally build garrisons and buildings when they capture a city, I mainly want them to pump out tons of units. My latest theory is that they seem to change to the default strategy as soon as they get a few cities and/or I build the great wall. I do love seeing the Vandals and Visigoths I must admit and had given a small ability to them in the barbarian strategy to expand. They also tend to become totally passive thus my theory that they've changed strategies to default.

Thirdly, how can we force barbs and AI units to stack before they attack? I just had 2 stacks of barbs attack one by one instead of forming an army. Being that rally is part of siege and attack i would have expected the entire stack to have attacked together.

Thanks.

------------------
History is written by the victor.
[This message has been edited by Alpha Wolf (edited February 07, 2001).]

	07-02-2001 09:54									#206
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Can he help out on the adding terrain ideas that I had in the creation forum? Or who can I get in contact with for that, if anyone?

	08-02-2001 06:21									#207
	Support Apolyton

AW, this paste fron the strategies.txt should answer your second question.

STRATEGY_BARBARIAN {

// must inherit from default
Inherit STRATEGY_DEFAULT

This means that the Bars will use the default settings unless new ones are listed in their section.

	08-02-2001 23:31									#209
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sorry, wrong thread.
[This message has been edited by Locutus (edited February 08, 2001).]