05-02-2001 18:13									#1
	Frenzy Mod Enter the AD-FREE zone

I am getting tired of beating the A.I. at war. I have heard that the Frenzy Mod is supposed to help improve the AI's ability to wage war. Has anyone tried it. Does it work? I would like some confirmation before going ahead and applying it.

	05-02-2001 18:48									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well... if at Very Hard setting with 8 Civs on Islands you are presented with 12 stacks of enemies hurtling towards your capital, don't bother

If not, get it ... NOW!!!

It may have it's limitations/bugs/etc. (Dale: I've not noticed any yet, don't hit me!) but it's a damn side better than the shipped version.


------------------
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be

	05-02-2001 19:07									#3
	Remove this text

I have been playing on Very Hard and start the game by falling behind badly but then someone declares war on me and after a while their efforts seem to dwindle and they start sending in single units.

Is this the sort of thing that the Mod fixes?

	05-02-2001 20:00									#4
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Yup. It does! It now sends single stacks of 10 or 12 units, it keeps asking me for maps, doesn't always bother declaring war (default attitude appears to be "war"), I'm constantly being pestered by slavers.

I've not got very far in this game, but there is a significant improvement. It's a bit like I remember Very Hard setting (King) in CIV1; you have to be a little bit lucky to survive the first few hundred years.

Get it!!

	07-02-2001 16:53									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ok, the frency AI sends stacks toward my cities, but I noticed one strange thing: the frenzy AI doesn't defend a conquered city. I can take a city back with one simple warrior.

BlueO: Is there a solution for that behavior?

bye, Andre

	08-02-2001 03:53									#6
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Yeah, I think if a army conquers a new city, ungroup the army should solve the trick. By ungrouping it, it'll turn off the frenziness of that stack, so it won't leave the city to look for the next city to attack. Didn't think of that till now.

	08-02-2001 05:56									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

BLUEO,

When the unstack-in-new-city is added, does this mean that the AI will simply leave the units there, or will it move some parts of the stack to continue attacking?

	08-02-2001 19:36									#8
	Suffering from ads?

I just played two games with FrenzyAI 1.04 and DiploMod 3.1(combined) and here is what happened.
I must say that I ended the first game after half an hour. Some thing were so badly balanced in txt files that it just wasn't playable.

First: Every tech I wanted I got no matter they like me or not, or are they stronger or not.Just ask.
So I had to change diplomacyproposal.txt and now is better.
Second: When I ask for truce I get it. Every single time. Diplomacyproposal.txt too.
Third: Proposal priorities between AI's, AI_TO_AI I think, are disaster. Every country has every techs and newest maps...?!
Had to change it!
Forth:
Minimum distance beetween cities 7 and 8??!! I think this was in Frenzy. Disaster.
On the north continent one AI had just 2 cities.And there was place for at least 3 more outside their borders, but it was empty.
Fifth: Minimum garissons from 2 to one unit made in Frenzy. Catastrophe. Barbarians eat half of civs till 0 AD. Had to turn it back.
Sixth: Frenzy AI stage 4?! When?! I conquered 13 cities on Very Hard of one CIv and 12 another and they offered me truce. OK. I breaked this truce without declaring war at least dozen times and nothing happened. I don't want to use nuclear weapons, I never use it, and as I remember Hitler didn't use it when he toggled the whole world against himself.
Seventh: AI build too many ranged units. I destroyad AI stacks of 12 archers and 12 artillerys. It needs a balance.
ETc...Etc...
Mostly this thing are easy to repair.
Just one thing more.
Code SLIC itself isn't so bad made but balancing is coma.
Withdraw works OK. I had a crash when a foreign spy atempted to steal tech from me.
But I don't bother the crashes...just save it every 5 turns.
That all that I remember right now.
I thing Frenzy and Diplomod are far from over and finished, both need a lot of balancing.
My suggestion is that we spend more time making this game intelligent and playable then just importing new maps and units. Look at chess. I think Civ is sort of a little more complicated chess game. AI in chess games is refined and good. Nobody cares how king or some other unit looks.
I don't think graphics is more important but playing a game with a fancy units and graphics and maps is worthless if your opponent is angering you with his stupidity. Attacking cities with bombers instead of bombing....crashing fighters cuz they are out of fuel...I mean I don't care how many sorts of fighters do I have(right now 3) when all off them are falling in sea cuz of a stupid AI.

Conclusion:
I'll do my best in balancing AI when deal with some exams on my colledge.
I value things that AW,Dale and BlueO do in trying to make a better AI. I suggest they try to make better versions of relatively innovating Frenzy and Diplomod instead of proclaiming them finished. We need to make them perfect. We need to show Activision what we can do. In a future posts I ll send some more concrete suggestions of TXT files and SLC's.
Greetings to everyone.
AJ

	08-02-2001 20:39									#9
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Hi there,

Looks to me like your using old info, diplomod 3.1 indeed had that flaw.
Go to the files section and download v 3.2.
It dealt with all your problems.

Furthermore it's noticable that without any adjustment diplo and frenzy don't work well together.
In a forum (can't remember wich one) there is an addition to frenzyAI wich you paste in the SLIC file and that makes them a lot more compatible !

Try these things and have fun !

	09-02-2001 01:19									#10
	Put an end to popups!

Right...
I just downloaded V3.2 of Diplomod (On download info says that it is the V3.1 ).
I checked it and I still see high acceptance prioritys for map changes beetween AIs. For now I noticed only that.
ProposalElement {
Proposal PROPOSAL_REQUEST_GIVE_ADVANCE
SendPriority 200
AcceptPriority 75
RejectPriority 100
SenderRegardResult -10
ReceiverRegardResult 100
ViolationRegardCost 0
ViolationTrustCost 0
}
That's better!
But this?!:
ProposalElement {
Proposal PROPOSAL_REQUEST_GIVE_CITY
SendPriority 200
AcceptPriority 210
RejectPriority 50
SenderRegardResult -50
ReceiverRegardResult 300
ViolationRegardCost 0
ViolationTrustCost 0
}
What are they sharing cities to each other??

And this:
ProposalElement {
Proposal PROPOSAL_REQUEST_GIVE_ADVANCE
SendPriority 200
AcceptPriority 210
RejectPriority 50
SenderRegardResult -10
ReceiverRegardResult 100
ViolationRegardCost 0
ViolationTrustCost 0
}
And advances too?

ProposalElement {
Proposal PROPOSAL_REQUEST_MAP
SendPriority 200
AcceptPriority 210
RejectPriority 50
SenderRegardResult -10
ReceiverRegardResult 100
ViolationRegardCost 0
ViolationTrustCost 0
}
Maps too?

Maybe this was handled in *.slc files somehow?
AJ

	09-02-2001 03:57									#11
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AllenJ:
In actual fact those are the AI to AI settings and since the AI NEVER does diplomacy between itself, these settings are actually redundant. They're in there simply for the diplomatic stance settings. AI to AI diplomacy is handled by the SLIC script.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	09-02-2001 04:30									#12
	Got spare money?

Actually, the frenzy AI mod is finished. The balance problems had to do with the strategy.txt file... For frenzy ai to work, they need A LOT of units, so I made some of the values in the strategy.txt to the extreme, thus off balancing part of the game.

I'm not likely going to improve the frenzy ai further, because its just too much trouble. So, anyone else who wants to continue to improve the Frenzy AI, you got my blessings!

	09-02-2001 05:45									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Could someone post the slic changes needed to ungroup units after a city is captured.

Thanks.

	09-02-2001 17:21									#16
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Ok Dale...if you say so.
Yaes...the SLIC seems OK...
BlueO...I guess he needs too many units, i just wanted to see some counter attack.
AJ

	16-02-2001 00:32									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I've been trying out the Frenzy Mod, with the alteration that lets the human upgrade units as well as the AI, and it doesn't work. The units just don't upgrade. Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick and it isn't possible anyway.

I think I preferred the CTP1 AI, I seem to have some good memories of it anyway.

	16-02-2001 19:23									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

David,
I noticed that my units only upgraded when I added a new unit to a stack, ie, if i create a machine gunner and add him to a stack, the old units suddenly upgrade.

Other than that, I never see it happen.

	19-02-2001 12:58									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hi evryone !

I'm currently waiting for the medieval mod, can't wait to play it !!

But for now I just play basic games and there is something that strikes me as odd in those game.
Not in all games but over 90 %.

I have diplomod 3.2 combined with frenzyAI 1.04 (newest). and later in the game when you have all of the map available when I check my opponents ALL of their capitals have been taken over by another CIV ?

And they do not make any effort as to take back their own capital !
I looked at the SLIC of frenzy and it lookes for a city to conquer and the search routine begines at 1 thus the capital.
So scriptwise the enemy always comes to your capital to take it over....because slic told it to ! Isn't it possible they just pick a city to conquer !
Or make the enemy take back their capital ! There has to be a way !

Thnx a lot !