07-02-2001 05:21									#1
	New terrains? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Okay, I would just like to find out if anyone has found a way to import new images for the terrain this would be helpful.

The second part of the question is: Is there a way Harlan to add the new colours to the bmp2ctp2 program if we were able to add new terrains?

And finally, what terrains would people want to see. From what I've come across in doing this "dam" map is that ctp2 or any civ game doesn't really provide a large enough selection of terrain types. Tundra is nice and all but it doesn't include the possibilities of trees or shrubs. Tundra in most places varies from rocky, to tree/shrub to bare land. I know that by adding more terrains it gets a little more confusing to the player but if there is good documentation then it wouldn't matter. Would it? Or would it cause a problem adding terrains to the AI computation for selecting a site for habitation? Personally I'd like to create a few different types of terrains. The most important to me would be a cropland and urban land. The cropland would basically enhance the production of cities like the tile improvements but IMO tile improvements are fictious since who ever heard of having a mall in the mountains but still being able to take rock from the mountains without distrubing the shopping centre. My idea would basically improve the land or create a better sense of TI matching the tiles. Say if you wanted to place farms on a tile you'd have to have it either be plains or grassland for the early years of the game but as your civ ages you must commit to terraforming the land (designating it as farm land) to reap the benefits of anything greater than a basic farm. This would bring about the concept of croplands. The terraforming/designating it as such would allow you to build a better farm or something along those lines. Same thing would be true for a shopping mall. Early on the trading post should be available for anywhere, but once you want to place a shopping centre you must convert the land to urban land or something along the more human manipulated lines. I need to think about this a little more to draw up exactly what I'm thinking, but that is the basic concept. The addition of terrains and some TI's I believe would cause the player and hopefully the AI to do more terraforming and planning so there is a more realistic feel to the game. Humans have always converted the land to what they wanted why should I be able to play this game place farms and whatever whereever I want without terraforming (I know there are limits to where you can place things). I've gone many a games without ever using the terraforming option. Am I the only one?

	07-02-2001 06:00									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Omni:
Here's some ideas for you.......

- Flowers. Provides growth bonus as young couples go for walks and............ AHEM!
- Boiling hot mud. Provides happiness because women can use it on their faces and feel more beautiful.
- Errosion. Big holes that produce nothing, but supply fertile dirt (and consequently more food) to neighboring tiles.
- Bottomless pit. Units that walk onto this tile "disappear!!!!".
- Sports ground. Provides a production loss as brainless men spend all their time watching sports.

But seriously, no I've never used terraforming. Except maybe the odd swamp tile.

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	07-02-2001 07:02									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

i wish terrain had consisted of 2 parts: ground type, and coverage. i'd like to see heavily wooded hills. I occasionally get to visit civil and revolutionary war sites, and you can imagine how difficult running up the wooded hills was compared to the bare hills. I'd also like to see plateaus.

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History is written by the victor.

	07-02-2001 12:56									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Slightly off topic but probably would use the same concept, I'd like to see a few new tile improvements: lumber mill, wind mill, dam, castle/keep, terraced farms for hills.

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History is written by the victor.

	07-02-2001 16:06									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Hmm, acutally there might be a way to do this. It's basically the same concept as the city sprawl.

To make a wooded hill, create trees for the 'goods' sprites. Then make a hill, and have its goods changed to these trees sprites. Make a slic code, look for these new terrain types and plantgoods on them. Volia, trees on hills!

For cropland and mountain shopping malls, this is what you do. For the cropland, create 2 type of terrains. A bare cropland - no tile improvements, and a farmed cropland - farm tile improvements. And use slic code, if the player tileimproves a cropland, instead of putting a tile improvement on it, just change it to the farmed cropland terrain! Same way for shopping mall mountains.

Additional bonus, since you can animate the goods (haven't tried it, but it should work...) you can have animated terrains...flashy lights on the shopping malls, etc...

Only problem is, you will have tons of new 'goods' everywhere. If there's a way to make these goods a value of 0, it won't show up on the trade tab... but I had not figured out how to do so...
[This message has been edited by BlueO (edited February 07, 2001).]

	07-02-2001 19:33									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Omni, maybe an idea would be to distinguish between rivers and "major rivers". As I've posted before somewhere, one of my major gripes with the terrain has thus far been the way rivers are supposedly easier [!!] to cross than grassland. This makes rivers on your borders a liability rather than a boon. Enemy troops can move down the rivers a lot quicker than you sometimes anticipate.

Now, historically, borders are often at rivers as they are absolute (£%(*^£$ to cross. Imagine having to cross the Mississippi/Missouri or Amazon rivers. Even travelling along them is not always the quickest way (well mostly it's quicker than plowing through the surrounding jungle). Especially the upper parts of these rivers are not navigable.

Hence my suggestion for a "major river" terrain type. This would allow me to build scenarios in which rivers become of strategic importance (without having to build sea tiles in the middle of the land).

And yes I know, this is mainly an aesthetic issue

Let me know what you think

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	07-02-2001 21:53									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The idea is sound I believe but the difficulty is instituting the change. I know that we can easily change the tiles that we have and reuse the same graphic for many types of terrains, but that just breeds confusion. I would love to be able to add terrains with new unique graphics. The idea with slic is a good one, but personally I'd like to avoid using slic so that even the most unknowledgable person (for programming) could be able to make what they want. So the basic question is... Can we add new terrain graphics? If so how, if not then slic would be the next best thing.

	08-02-2001 10:43									#9
	Got spare money?

I don't think it is possible to add new terrain unless Activision releases a utility that allows us to add or change what is in the gtset555.til and gtset565.til files. In terrain.txt each terrain type has a TileSetIndex line that refers to one of those files for the graphic. Unfortunately the same is true for tile improvements.

What we need to do is write a very nice polite letter to Activision asking that they release their utility program for changing around those two files. If they plan not to do any more work with the game, and do not plan to do a CTP3, then I don't see why they would refuse. Does anyone have a good email contact to make such a request (other than their support addresses)?
[This message has been edited by Jerk (edited February 07, 2001).]

	08-02-2001 01:08									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Major rivers: as I posted somewhere else I believe, I've already accomplished this with the version of Alex I'm working on. Here's what the GL entry in the scenario has to say about them:

MAJOR RIVER RULES
In ancient times, large rivers were a great obstacle to travel. While ships could sail up and down them with ease, crossing them was nearly impossible without a bridge or a ship to carry people across. This is reflected in this scenario. Major rivers look no different from other rivers, but virtually all land units can only move across them if there is a road over the river or by boarding a Galley. Only Horsemen, Warriors, Scouts and Alexander himself can cross major rivers unaided. Because they're so difficult to see, here is a list of all the rivers in the game:

DANUBE. Directly to the north of Macedonia (i.e., north of Pella and Philippolis). Two branches upstream also cannot be crossed.
GANGES. In eastern India, flowing through a large irrigated valley. Several branches also.
INDUS. In western India, roughly from the city of Taksasila to the city of Pattala. Including several branches.
NILE. The main river of Egypt (starting from the town of Pelusium). Below the city of Syene, a series of waterfalls makes the Nile navigable only occasionally.
OXUS. The main river of Sogdia, running near Baktra and with a branch heading towards Maracanda.
TIGRIS and EUPHRATES. The twin rivers of Mesopetopia. Both run very close to the city of Bablyon. The Tigris heads up towards Arbela, and the Euphrates heads towards Thapsacus.

Please keep these locations in mind. If you are unsure if a tile is part of a major river, right click on the tile, and check to see if the word River is included in the terrain name.

Galleys and Triremes can sail up and down major rivers. Cities directly on major rivers can build Galleys and Harbors. All the major rivers rules only apply to the flat, navigable parts of the rivers. Once the rivers get close to Hills, they function like all other rivers.

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As for how I did it, I created new terrain types that look the same as other terrain types (for instance, two types of Grassland), but allow all units with Shallow_Ocean movement ability to move on them, all units with Land movement not to move on them, and all units with Mountain movememtn to move on them. The third part is very important cos if you don't do that, the game will assume its actually a water square, and keep changing the graphic to ocean periodically. There are a few other things to watch out for (for instance battle backgrounds will be of ocean if you're not careful), but they all can be dealt with.

The biggest problem is that you can't visually see the difference between rivers and major rivers. I'd like to find out more on using trade goods that aren't really trade goods- is there a way to give them a value of 0, so they aren't considered trade goods? Then I could mark off the major rivers better.

	08-02-2001 19:30									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Alright- herez my wish list.
-forests broken up into deciduous and evergreen types
-add shallows which both land and sea units could move on
-canyons
-land volcanoes- high rescourses but danger of natural disaser.
-grassland broken up into arable land and savannah.
-Stagnant ocen, polluted water.
It'd be awesome if somebady could make these!

	09-02-2001 09:51									#12
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Good list Chris

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History is written by the victor.

	17-02-2001 12:11									#13
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Anyone find a way into the tile graphics?

	17-02-2001 14:54									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hi all,

The way i have used the major rivers in my mod is to use the coastal tile to map the course of the river, remeber not to have it run in too straight a line, then use the river button on the bottem by goods etc to overwrite the the rivers path, this will smoth out the graphic to a major river which if you place citys cleverly will provide your crossing points without creating an impassable river line. Hope this helps.