26-02-2001 02:10									#1
	Ambush terrain feature, combat anyalsis Remove this text

I was looking for a way to represent ambushes, like Varus in Germany,
Lake Traismine, where one side was caught unprepared for combat either
through poor deplyment, surprise attack whilst crossing a river etc, their
are many examles of this type of event in history.

This is what i come up with so far.

So, there are two special terrain types not used in a regular game see
terrain.txt, reuse bottom one for a new terrain type,call it low hills
with same stats as normal hills,possibly lower movement rate,change its
combat modifier to a negative.Easy i thought,and tested out some sample
combat,matched some units up from a number of different terrain types.

The battle screen its reporting +-100%, but the actual combats are not
coming out as you would excpect them to.Any thoughts??

As a bonus if you use special 2 for your terrain you get to fight
a coastal battle screen.

Its not to do with the reuse of the terrain tiles as i have been using
them for some time with no problems in regular combat were all bonuses
were positive.

Here is the data, all units were 30Attack 20 defence sat adjacent prior
to combat.7 units vs 7 units.Mountain have only 3 combats as their very
one sided and dont need to big a sample.

Attcking fromGrass to defending on AmbushTerrain +-100%
Attacker has 1,2,3,5,1,2 units left after 6 combats

Attcking fromAmbushTerrain to defending on AmbushTerrain +-100%
Attacker has 5,1,2 defender has 3,4,2

Attcking fromAmbushTerrain to defending on Grass 0%
Attacker has 4,4,1 defender has 1,3,2

Attcking fromMountain to defending on Grass 0%
Attacker has 7,6,7 (very healthy)

Attcking fromGrass to defending MonMountain +100%
defender has 7,7,7 (very healthy)

Attcking fromMountain to defending fromMountain +100%
Attacker has 2,3 units left defender has 2,2,2,1, units left

This highlights the importance of the terrain you attack from.You may
think this irrelevant or boring but without proper documentation i see
no other way to fully understand the combat mechanics of this game. So
why does the top example which has the same 100% modifier not produce
a similiar set of results as the bottom example?

	26-02-2001 05:50									#2
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See Wes' post in the CTP2 General forum regarding this issue.

Basically, he thinks that the combat structure is different from the past - each battle is a series of attacks where the units switch back and forth from attacker to defender.

Terrain now plays a factor for both attackers and defenders.

If correct, this will change things if you are attempting to modify units. I have to look at my own setup now.
[This message has been edited by hexagonian (edited February 25, 2001).]

	26-02-2001 08:03									#3
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Uggghhh...I don't like this. If an army of hoplites on a mountain attack an army of hoplites on grassland...why would they have such a tremendous advantage? They do have to fight close-up on common ground. Unless you figure they built up a lot of momentum running down that mountain.

	26-02-2001 09:20									#4
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Hoplites dont run. Not if they want to keep their critical formation together.

Still, traditionally, terrain favors the defender.

Ambushes should be handled (in a perfect world) with a chance that the defenders (and maybe, the attackers - base it off randomness and the vetran status) get a number of free attacks.

It would certainly give small units a chance to wipe out larger armys. And it was all Hannibal had going for him.



------------------
Bluevoss-

	26-02-2001 10:52									#5
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I know they don't run...that's why the "rolleyes" smilie was there.

Hannibal: I suppose that you may want to rethink the ambush thing in that you would want to give the attackers a terrain with a high defensive bonus (a la mountain)...focusing on the attackers rather than the defenders. In my personal mod, I've made Jungle and Swamp terrains as TerrainType: Mountain so that tanks and other wheeled vehicles cannot travel thru them. You could also raise the defense bonus on such terrains so that attacking units could use jungle and swamp (and mountain of course) as the launching point for a successful ambush. Thinking of it as an ambush (striking from jungle, swamp or mountain) makes the skewed combat structure more palatable to me.

	26-02-2001 15:19									#6
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Xmon,
yep that works for me

	27-02-2001 07:44									#7
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Ooops! I screwed up. Up above there I said I made jungle and swamp into TerrainType: Mountain. Wrong! I changed the MovementType from Land to Mountain. Sorry for any confusion.