26-12-1999 11:34									#1
	Barb Tricks Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

This is one great Barb trick that I do. I am usually not to violent a guy so I am kinda slow at getting defenders in my cities. Every now and then a barb raiding party will land near Vladvistock. They say gimmie 387 gold or they will do there worst. So what do i do? I let them take it. Then I rush a dip and go buy it back for like 46. What does it gain me? Well I get the free leigon and I get the caraval they came in on, and whatever else was in the caraval. Mucho free units.



If there are more barb trick I need them, On raging hordes why not use barbs to your advantage? There are plenty of them.



Of the subject... When I play ICS and discover gunpowder it get very slow, since building this musketiers takes 3 times longer then my pikmen. Am I missing somthing?

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Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

	28-12-1999 05:30									#2
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Early in the game, before you have dips, you may see barbs aproaching a city you can't defend. If you have lots of gold, they may demand much of it. I use the gold to spend on other cities until I have about 50 left. then, when they ask for tribute, I can save the city for only 50 gold or so.
If I see chariots approaching a size 1 city defended by a warrior, I move the warrior out of the city. The barbs can take the city, and it stays intact. Ready to bribe back later. Its cheaper than letting the city be destroyed.
If barbs approach your palace early in the game, don't panic. A warrior will hold out if you have only one or two cities.

	28-12-1999 08:46									#3
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Hey Genghis,

Here's a good barbarian trick:

You see them coming and don't want the city sacked by the crusaders or big horseys or the dragoons, so line the coast near the city with units...usually only takes two or three around the city. But the ship will sit off the coast for the entire game! Experiment a bit with it. Sometimes I'll do this trick and build up city walls and then let the barbarians beat their little heads on the new masonry. Other times I'll just build an iron clad and kick their butts.

I don't let the barbarians sack a city. As geofelt mentioned, they can be very destructive. But there are instances where it is better to let them do as you say, take the town and then bribe the whole lot. But when you have stock markets and universities and factories and a lot of money, that barbarian extortion is huge and maybe even worth it. Of course, by this time of the game, one should have a few garrisoned troops.

Another barbarian trick, find a remote barbarian city and drop a spy off and get an indefinate number of 63 gold piece 'none' musketeers. If you have Leo's, they'll upgrade to our favorite, rifleman. I love nones as I have a democracy usually.

In truth, I think raging barbarians are an asset. Of course, I have a diplomat or two within reach of every city.

Aurelius.

	29-12-1999 21:58									#4
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Geofelt -

Are you sure about the barbs not taking your second city? I know that if you only have one city, you are safe as long you have a unit inside, but I thought that if you had more than one, you could lose.
[This message has been edited by crowatbitemedotcom (edited December 29, 1999).]

	30-12-1999 10:24									#5
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quote: Originally posted by crowatbitemedotcom on 12-29-1999 11:58 AM Are you sure about the barbs not taking your second city? I know that if you only have one city, you are safe as long you have a unit inside, but I thought that if you had more than one, you could lose.

You're safe with the one city, but as soon as you have a second city you may lose. I've noticed that sometimes the capital may hold out against barbs with a warrior, but sometimes it doesn't. The 2nd city never gets a bonus. Either way you can't count on it once the 2nd city is there.

But if you make Writing a priority you won't have any problems with barbs. Just keep the diplomat(s) near the edge of your empire, and when the barbs show up, buy the military and kill the leader. This is where Raging Hordes becomes an asset: you get more money from leaders for higher barb levels (150 at raging). You can often get a new army and make a profit at the same time.

Another trick is to go trolling for barbs. Take one military unit and 2 dips exploring. Use the military unit to take any huts while keeping the dips adjacent to the hut; if barbs pop out the max will be six. Use the dips to buy barbs and use the new friendly barbs to attack any remaining former comrades. With Leo's you can round up a huge "non" army of cavalry later in the game.

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Theben
Co-Moderator of the Civ3 Forums

	30-12-1999 12:30									#6
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another version is to build a fort on a moutnain by the ai or human civ and let barbs come a strolling and bribe them that way as well.....especially if you leave a black area on the map so that the computer thinks the area is not infested with cities.... barbs like darkness or a lack of cities

	31-12-1999 10:56									#7
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Here's a trick to capture barb leader. Build fortresses around your cities. Have a couple of good defense units, a horse and a catapult in each of the cities.

	31-12-1999 00:12									#8
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Xin YU.... that strategy is great especially if two barb leaders are on the same fort as you can kill them seperately and collect both bounties as opposed to killing them together and only collecting one ransom.
I must admit i never do this though as i rarely build forts

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Casualties are part of war.... It's ok to die by the humdreds if your foe will perish by the thousands

	31-12-1999 01:15									#9
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That is a good idea. I've only started to build forts in the OCC, so I'm not really aware of all the uses. I hate it when I only get one ransom for two barb leaders. The main thing I've noticed about forts is that the AI builds way too many and it's easy to take advantage of them.

	06-01-2000 20:29									#10
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Here is a barb trick that I really enjoy using.

So, here come the barbs. I go out to meet them with a Settler, and build a city before he can be attacked. The barbs walk in, and if you have whatever technology that allows you to have partisans, VIOLA, you instantly get about 8-12 partisans. They are all "NONE" units, even if this new city you founded is close to other cities.

For you democratic players, you know how important "NONE" units are, and partisans are pretty decent units. They have a defense factor of four, move 3 squares regardless of terrain, and ignore enemy zones of control -- a bunch of free "NONE" partisans are great for setting up that blockade of ground units between your territory and the AI's.

	06-01-2000 20:41									#11
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In MP you have another option. Give all your gold to another player and let the barb demand what you have left. Rah did this in a MP game. He gave me like 600 (or something) gold to hold for one turn. I almost blew the wad on my cities! hehehe but no, I gave it back.

	09-01-2000 15:25									#12
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MWHC, that's what I call a trusty ally!

Xin's idea is almost enough to make me build horseys and cats. I may try that in OCC.

Of course, finding a barb city from a fallen civ early in the game is priceless.

That reminds me, does anyone else transport settlers to islands near neighbors, build a city, then disband a cheap unit and rush-buy a (NONE) settler? It's even better after explosives, actually converting supported settlers into NONE engrs!

	09-01-2000 16:51									#13
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don Don

I most certainly do.
[This message has been edited by Miner (edited January 09, 2000).]

	19-01-2000 07:40									#14
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Vik.

That's brilliant. I've deliberately built in the path of barbs before for various reasons, but never just to create NONE partisans.

Now I know what to do when I see one of those subcontinents smothered in barbarian cavalry and fanatics.

Keep sending engineers up there, keep building cities and keep generating NONE partisans. Since I play most of the game (and all of the modern era as a Democracy) these NONE troops will come in very handy during the end game.

I can't wait to try this out. It may be a dead end, but it will break the monotony of thumping on the AI.

Thanks.

	19-01-2000 21:59									#15
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Vik: I don't understand. Are you saying that if the barbs take the city and you bribe it back, the units will be NON units? Or are you saying something else? Could you (or anyone who understands it) please clarify.

	20-01-2000 00:47									#16
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After you discover guerilla warfare, the Partisan unit becomes available. If you get a city taken over after this point (by barbs, AI, or whomever), you will see a message like "Citizens of XXX city take to the hills!" or something. And then the city you just lost is literally surrounded by these NONE partisan units before you begin your next turn. The units are now yours, but the city is no longer yours. You can probably take the city back at your leisure, but the bonus is you get around a dozen NONE partisan units under your control.

If you've never had a city taken away from you late in the game (after you've discovered guerrilla warfare), you probably have no idea what I'm talking about. Give it a try.

	20-01-2000 01:06									#17
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Vik

Partisans appear if I capture an AI city after the civ has discovered COMMUNISM. You only need Guerrilla Warfare to actually build Partisans.

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Scouse Git (2)

	20-01-2000 01:38									#18
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Yes, I see now. Very clever. Unnecessary against the AI, but could be very useful in MP.

As an aside, though, I thought the number of partisans is a function of the city size. That may be wrong, but do you always get that many partisans from a size 1 city?

	20-01-2000 03:50									#19
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Bird -

I'm pretty sure you are right. I can remember taking over very large AI cities and having partisans covering every city square, and taking over small cities and have only 3-5 to deal with.

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SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky eck ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

	20-01-2000 04:30									#20
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SG-2: thanks for the correction

bird/sandmonkey:

I assure you that I had a size 2 city taken over by barbs, and I got 16 partisans out of it. Every square in the city radius had a new partisan on it, except for 3 squares that had barb units on it, and one square that had one of my tanks on it. Maybe it has to do with the total population of your civilization--i don't know, but i've also encountered what you mentioned--taking over an AI city and only seeing 3 or 4 enemy partisans popping up.

What's interesting is that I took the city back on the next turn with armor, moved all the partisans away and moved the armor away so the barbarians could take it again. When they took it, I got no partisans, no nothing.

wierd.
[This message has been edited by vik (edited January 19, 2000).]

	20-01-2000 04:40									#21
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Vik

I think you have a point about the number of partisans being linked to the overall civ population and not to the size of the city itself. This is only anecdotal evidence - but in a recent game I captured the Zulu capital (size 12) and suffered only one partisan. By this time they were reduced to only one other city.

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Scouse Git (2)

	20-01-2000 04:44									#22
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In a recent duel i had a grassy dead end row that I planned to build on. However, barbs were appearing regularly, so rather than fill the space up I left a city near there. Because I had GW they kept dying horribly, allowing me to collect 150 gold every few turns. handy money for bribing/wonders

Graag


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A man could not be in two places at the same time unless he were a bird!
#47222759

	20-01-2000 04:57									#23
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"That reminds me, does anyone else transport settlers to islands near neighbors, build a city, then disband a cheap unit and rush-buy a (NONE) settler? It's even better after explosives, actually converting supported settlers into NONE engrs!"

How do you mean?

	20-01-2000 05:27									#24
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I've never considered that trick...so you disband the city?

Oh, does graag attribute quantum mech to being a bird or is it all their droppings?

Aurelius

	20-01-2000 06:38									#25
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VetLegion & Aurelius -

All you do is land a (supported) settler/engineer near a foriegn civ, build a city, and then rush-buy the settler/engineer, thus disbanding the city and giving you a NON unit (since it is closer to the enemy civ). Basically you are changing a supported unit into a NON unit with a small amount of gold. This is how it works, right?

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SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky eck ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

	20-01-2000 10:27									#26
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Vik, you only get partisans the first time a city is captured. So you can't repeat the procedure with the same city again.

	20-01-2000 12:53									#27
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Number of partisans popping up: Also depends on government, IIRC. I think commie gives most, (and I think) demo #2. Most AIs go fundie in late-game wars, which will yield very few guerillas.
Number is still linked to city size, and 16 partisans from a size 2 city seems awfully much.

C.

	20-01-2000 16:05									#28
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one barb "trick" is once stumbled across ages ago (back in my Prince days) was when I landed a single unsupported settler on a remote continent, built a city and lost it to the Barbs the very next turn. I forgot a bout the city for a couple of 100 years and when my empire finaly reached that continent again, the barbs had taken over 7 or 8 indian and English cities, making them the 4th largest empire in the world!!!

ok, this is not much of a trick (I tried it again deliberatly later but never got such a good result) but it is definitly fun!!!

question, what is the most modern unit the Barbs ever came up with ... I've never seen anything beyond destroyer, artillery, riflemen.
also, can you bribe a barb leader and use him for anything usefull?

on the partisan thing, notice that sometimes you "liberate" a city and sometimes you "capture" a city? I think previous owners has something to do with the number of partisans produced eg. you lose a previously french city to the french and you won't get much out of it.

	20-01-2000 19:13									#29
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Well, here's the vital stats, as I recall them, for the time I got 16 partisans out of a size-2 city. My overall population was around 30 or 40 million, and I estimate I was much more populated than any of the AI's. My government was a democracy. I had a size 12 city about 4 or 5 spaces away (but I don't know if that matters).

Hopefully, somebody here is on their way to validating this, or running a test of their own. This is something I really took note of, because I didn't know about the partisan thing, and, like catullus said, it seemed like an awful lot of units. That's why I tried to do it again 2 turns later with the same city.

Paul--thanks for the info. Could I interpret that to mean that if I want to gain more free partisans in this manner, I would have to build another city?

Also, Paul (or anyone else intereseted), if you would be so kind as to glance at my OCC log I posted in the "OCC: BC 3500- AC 1939" thread started by Genghis, I would appreciate your critique and insight. It was my first attempt at keeping a log, and it was helpful, albeit lengthy. I don't know where us folks outside of the fortnight competition can post logs for review, so I just stuck it there. Any time spent there by you (or anyone else) would be greatly appreciated.

	21-01-2000 03:15									#30
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In my last Diety game, I had not found the 3rd civ, while I and the French were warring and making peace....Then a trireme with a dip on it, making the rounds of hut hunting in foreign lands, stumbled across Rome. We agreed to be peaceful, and my dip went on further up the black spaces, exploring....
Before too many spaces he came across a Barb city (Veii - taken from the Romans, and never taken back.) it was size 8 and had bunches of dragoons, legions etc around. I was fortunate to be able to get my dip out of the way of trouble and got to the city with an offer to revolt. When they accepted and became a new Mongol city, I found 3 dragoons and 4 barb kings inside which had turned into new Mongol diplomats.
In addition I got another dragoon and a legion outside the city, in the squares next to the city center. The whole city bribe was like 230 gold, and it returned 4 new dips, 4 dragoons and a legion, all of whom were updated over time as I got new military techs (Leos Workshop) and Espionage. The only bad thing was that they were supported (the troops) and cost a few shields. (2 I think, since I was in Monarchy at the time) The city was size 8, and had barracks, Market Place and Aquaduct as well. What a great buy!!