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Fiera is offline Fiera
Emperor
Proud Member of the Spanish Gang
Mar 2000
time: 06:14
Wink  Old Post 25-02-2001 23:00 Visit Fiera's homepage!
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A cpoulos-que thread: worst King in Spanish history? Support Apolyton

We've had so many bad kings that it's very hard to pick the worst.

But I'd go either with Carlos II or Fernando VII. What do you say?

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"¡Y pensar que algunos se asombran de que hayamos perdido las colonias! Lo que a mí me asombra es que, con esta burocracia, no hayamos perdido hasta los pantalones."

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Waku is offline Waku
Emperor
Cádiz, Spain
Nov 2000
time: 06:14
Angry  Old Post 25-02-2001 23:23 Visit Waku's homepage!
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Too many bad kings I can't say only one.
I would add Charles IV to those above.

Chris 62 is offline Chris 62
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Jan 2001
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Ah, fame at last! I have to go with Waku here. Charles IV was a simply a despot, and one of so little intellect that he verged on imbecility, and was hen-pecked as well, being very much under the influence of his wife, the coarse and unscrupulous Maria Louisa of Parma. It's pretty close between him and his idiot son, but I vote for Chuck.

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Shaka Naldur is offline Shaka Naldur
Emperor
Castellón, Spain
May 2000
time: 06:14
Post  Old Post 26-02-2001 00:16 Visit Shaka Naldur's homepage!
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I think that they worst kings ever are Philip II and Charles V

surprised??

they weren´t able to take profit of the american colonies and they just started stupid wars for supremacy ruining the Spanish economy
and they had a religious fanatism extreme

how did Philip the II think about the Great Armada?
What did Charles V didn´t allow religious freedom?

too many wars, little worries about the spanish maincountry and its people

they are in my opinion the worst king that Spain has ever had

Jay Bee is offline Jay Bee
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Valladolid, CA
Jan 1970
time: 06:14
  Old Post 26-02-2001 01:18 Visit Jay Bee's homepage!
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It is undeniable that Shaka has a point but still I strongly disagree. What Charles IV and Ferdinand VII did/did not do was way worse. Another good (bad) one was Elizabeth II (Isabella II? ).

Now lemme change the tercio a bit and ask for the BEST king. I know it's quite difficult

My picks are, in this order: Juan Carlos I (first democratic king in Spain's history)... ehm, ehm... I think that's pretty much it

PS. OK, OK, special mentions go to Charles III and Philip V (if XarXo reads this he will kill me, he, he). I also liked Alfonso VI and Ferdinand III of Castile, and James I of Aragon.
[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited February 25, 2001).]

Prometeus is offline Prometeus
King
of Old Europe - "In America we don't trust"
Jun 2000
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You forgot about Peter "the Cruel", king of Aragon, JB...

PS the angry face was selected for the king, not for you, JB...

Fiera is offline Fiera
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Mar 2000
time: 06:14
  Old Post 26-02-2001 04:46 Visit Fiera's homepage!
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quote:

Originally posted by Jay Bee on 02-25-2001 03:18 PM
Now lemme change the tercio a bit and ask for the BEST king. I know it's quite difficult


No, it isn't, at least for me. The best were the Catholic Kings. I know some of you will probably disagree on this, we can discuss it thoroughly if you're up to it...



As for Juan Carlos I... he isn't a ruler, which is something very good indeed, but I'm afraid that doesn't count in this thread...


[This message has been edited by Fiera (edited February 26, 2001).]

The Hogfather
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Fernando VII was an incompetent fool. And I thank God for that!

kIndal is offline kIndal
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de la taifa de Almería, Spain.
Oct 2000
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I have to agree that the worst king was Ferdinand VII, he can the best oportunity of making a modern country of Spain but failed to take advantage of the constitution of Cadiz.
The governors after him was only puppets in the hand of the primer ministers and the Habsburg,well I disagree with Shaka about Charles I and Philip II, it sounds more as black legend and i think nowdays it doesn´t sound very accurate and the other Habsburgs are only sharp who ceded their power to his validos (favourites).

Jay Bee is offline Jay Bee
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Jan 1970
time: 06:14
  Old Post 01-03-2001 07:02 Visit Jay Bee's homepage!
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quote:

Originally posted by Fiera on 02-25-2001 06:46 PM
As for Juan Carlos I... he isn't a ruler, which is something very good indeed, but I'm afraid that doesn't count in this thread...



Oh yeah, it does! That's exactly the reason why he's the best king that Spain has had!

Fiera is offline Fiera
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  Old Post 01-03-2001 08:27 Visit Fiera's homepage!
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quote:

Originally posted by Jay Bee on 02-28-2001 09:02 PM
That's exactly the reason why he's the best king that Spain has had!



Now if he didn't live in la Zarzuela Palace and he went to work everyday using public transportation, then he'd be an ideal king indeed...

Masis is offline Masis
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May 1999
time: 05:14
Post  Old Post 02-03-2001 06:16
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WORST KINGS OF HISPANIA?

Well I'd go back in history to the era of the Visigoths-after all the Gothic ruling class persecuted the native people who were the majority after all, just in the vain belief that they would obey them.
A mistake, which was the main reason for the rapid advance the Muslims had when they invaded Hispania during another civil war.
It was due to a civil war in 554 AD that the Romans of Constantinople were able to invade and occupy Andalusia for 70 years, yet this brief liberty that the people of Andalusia enjoyed was again crushed when the Goths retook the region and further enhanced their persecution of the natives.
That was the reason for the rapid advance of the Muslims into that area and why it would remain under Muslim control for a further 781 years.
Instead of bringing strength to Hispania, the Goths brought division and impovrishment to it.
So I vote for the entire Gothic Monarchy as the worst rulers of Hispania.

Below is quote from Jordanes, a German scribe at the court of Emperor Justinian during the 6th century AD, note the sentence on the invasion of Hispania by the Romans...

"Theodoric won an equally great victory over the Franks through his Count Ibba in Gaul, when more than thirty thousand Franks were slain in battle. Moreover, after the death of his son-in-law Alaric, Theodoric appointed Thiudis, his armor-bearer, guardian of his grandson Amalaric in Spain. But Amalaric was ensnared by the plots of the Franks in early youth and lost at once his kingdom and his life. Then his guardian Thiudis, advancing from the same kingdom, assailed the Franks and delivered the Spaniards from their disgraceful treachery. So long as he lived he kept the Visigoths united. (303) After him Thiudigisclus obtained the kingdom and, ruling but a short time, met his death at the hands of his own followers. He was succeeded by Agil, who holds the kingdom to the present day. Athanagild has rebelled against him and is even now provoking the might of the Roman Empire. So Liberius the Patrician is on the way with an army to oppose him. Now there was not a tribe in the west that did not serve Theodoric while he lived, either in friendship or by conquest"

For inforamtion on the persecution by the Goths against the native Romans of Hispania come to Romanity

To view the ebb and flow of the Roman empire during and after the Gothic crisis go here , scroll down the page to view the maps

To play out the era of the Goths V Romans era using Civ II click on this link to find scenarios I have made, the sites givin credit to my dad! his name is Khatchik Panos, whilst mine is Masis Panos!
The Graphics are primitive, but I have got Paint Shop Pro now and am going to update them.

For a little info on how much the Goths went in persecution find out here




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Jay Bee is offline Jay Bee
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time: 06:14
  Old Post 02-03-2001 06:34 Visit Jay Bee's homepage!
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quote:

Originally posted by Masis on 03-01-2001 08:16 PM
So I vote for the entire Gothic Monarchy as the worst rulers of Hispania.



Well, I am not sure that I agree with your opinion. I believe there were a few good Visigothic kings: Leovigild, Khindasvinth and Recchared among others.

I'll play your scen. Looks promising. Have you taken a look at my own Visigoths scenario? An old one but given your obvious knowledge of the subject, you might quite enjoy it.

PS. More shameless self-promotion, cpoulos

Chris 62 is offline Chris 62
Emperor
But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:14
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quote:

Originally posted by Jay Bee on 03-01-2001 08:34 PM
PS. More shameless self-promotion, cpoulos

Did I mention that I was the chief playtester of Dominion war, and that I wrote a review for the league? I'm just as bad....


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jasev is offline jasev
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Feb 2001
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Post  Old Post 05-03-2001 21:16 Visit jasev's homepage!
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The worst king in Spain was Fernando VII. A despot, egoistic, not very intelligent... I could go on for a while, but I'll say just a thing: when Fernando VII signed a decree forgiven all past crimes (conspirations), everybody tried to flee to Portugal, Gibraltar and France.

The best king of Spain.. well, I think Juan Carlos I, but my favourite king was amadeo I de Saboya. He was the first constitutional king in Spain; when the militars offered him to suspend the constitution, he denied and finally left the throne. And people says his last words were: "Spain, Spain, I'll return to Spain". I think he could have been a great king (in exception of his sexual affairs) if he had a few good luck.

Henrik is offline Henrik
Emperor
The European Union, Sweden, Lund
Dec 2000
time: 06:14
Wink  Old Post 05-03-2001 21:26 Visit Henrik's homepage!
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Sadly I don't know that much about Spanish kings...
I could name a very bad Swedish one though.

Shaka Naldur is offline Shaka Naldur
Emperor
Castellón, Spain
May 2000
time: 06:14
Post  Old Post 06-03-2001 02:38 Visit Shaka Naldur's homepage!
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quote:

Now if he didn't live in la Zarzuela Palace and he went to work everyday using public transportation, then he'd be an ideal king indeed...


true, true...

maybe Philip VI.....

Masis is offline Masis
Warlord
London
May 1999
time: 05:14
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Jay Bee's Visigoth scenario is so good in terms of terrain accuracy and historical reality.
The situations like the Black Death and the Tribal uprisings in the Ibro valley really add deapth to the game.
As a staunch Romanist I took the cause of the Romans, sought to protect Liberius at all costs, a real state of emergency, activating and gearing all villages and towns to military output, the CrossBow men are deadly!
Only things I added to it were a change in the design of the 'Byz.' units, the only thing 'wrong' with them was that they were old-fashioned, wearing gear that was out of date by at least 300 years, so I swapped the pagan emblems for the Chi-Rho monogram and changed the plate armour to chain mail in the suits of the units.
Chi Rho?
For information on the lively career of the Patrician Liberius, who was in his eighties when put under the command of the Hispania project, click Here

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MRP

Chris 62 is offline Chris 62
Emperor
But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:14
Wink  Old Post 06-03-2001 08:08
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Masis, why don't you post the units? I'd like to see them.

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Masis is offline Masis
Warlord
London
May 1999
time: 05:14
  Old Post 06-03-2001 23:11
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There is no real change in the 'Byzantine' units created by Jay Bee, I only edited minor things like emblems and armour, I swapped the 'Byz' cavalry for one I had made myself for another scenario.
Unfortunately I have yet to set up my own web site, I may do so to promote the Roman-'Byzantine'Civ II scenarios that are available, including of course ones I have created myself.
So that means I can not post the units here to view-but e-mail me and I can send them to you---> Khatchik@cwcom.net

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