12-04-2001 18:18									#1
	Is there anyone who can read latin out there? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have this framed picture of a battle, but all the text is in Latin, now I don't speak Latin but I figured someone here might now a little (and as Spanish is more related to Latin than Swedish you might know some of the words from your own language).
The title seems to be:

quote: DELINEATIO ACIEI ET PVGNÆ AD NORTRLINGAM VI. SEPTEMBRIS. A°M.DC.XXXIV

I have figured out that M.DC.XXXIV probably means 1634 myself, Nortlingam could be Nördlingen. But I am not sure of this.
The picture shows a lot of formations and stuff and every little coloumn of pikemens has a number attached to it and under the picture itself there is a describtion of what the coloummn whit that number is.
Number one for example says:

quote: Serenissimi REX HVNGARIÆ ET CARDINALIS HISPANARVM INFANS.

Does this mean something like the King of Hungary and the Cardinal of Spain?

Another interesting thing is that in the corner there is a note scribled down:

quote: Numerauit: Equites Pedites REX HVNGARIÆ 6000. 7000. SER.INFANS CARD. 3500. 12000. Dux Lotharmgiæ 3000. 3000. ----------------------- 12500. 22000. ----------------------- Weymar 4500. 5000. Gusatvus Horn 4000. 2300. Cratz 800. 3000. Wirtenbergensis 5000. ----------------------- 9300. 15300.

This I guess is the number of men, although I have no idea of what Equites and Pedites is.
It looks like one of the many drawings that where made of battles during that time.
The landscape is plane whit a few hills, there is a village and some trees in the background.
Now my question is this:
Is this the battle of Nördlingen? and if it is, what do all those words mean?
Hope somebody can help

	12-04-2001 18:33									#2
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I can't read Latin but as you have said Spanish is more related to it than Swedish. Let's see what I can do:

Delineatio = picture, drawing
Pvgnae = fight
infans = prince (cardinalis infans) rifhtful/legitimate son ?
Equites = horseriders
Pedites = on foot

Someone should confirm all this, as I have said I can't read Latin.

I think you're right, it is the battle of Nördlingen even without seeing the picture.

	12-04-2001 18:39									#3
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Hmmm... If it is the battle of Nördlingen Jesús could us this to check for how many units to give the spanish player when he is to retake the spanish road (in his new 30 years war scenario), they where all used in this battle, and here is the name for every single unit on this picture.

	12-04-2001 18:44									#4
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Where is the picture???

	12-04-2001 18:53									#5
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My Latin is a little rusty, but the first line means "View of the Battlefield". For a site that can translate Latin try here.

------------------
All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.
[This message has been edited by cpoulos (edited April 12, 2001).]

	12-04-2001 19:22									#9
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I think I've found the answer:

In Spain:

Principe (=prince) applies only to the crown prince.
Infante applies to the rest of princes.

Ferdinand of Austria was appointed cardinal and archbishop at the age of 10 (spanish catholic fanatism).

That's why he was known as "el cardenal infante" (cardinalis infans)

	12-04-2001 19:29									#10
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Is this the picture?


http://www.noerdlingen.de/kultur/text_stadtmuseum.htm
[This message has been edited by Waku (edited April 12, 2001).]

	12-04-2001 19:34									#11
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No, mine is of the battle, not the city
I don't think it is on the net. I have it here whit me at home.
I don't know where it came from, my dad gave it to me but he doesn't know where it came from either, he got it from his dad
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited April 12, 2001).]

	12-04-2001 19:42									#13
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No I don't know who made it, these kind of paintings (they are called Kopparstick in swedish meaning: Copper Stick in english but I don't think that is the correct phrase) where made by very many people in the 1600's.

	12-04-2001 23:13									#14
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I'll see what I can do for you Henrik, but my Latin is somewhat rusty from disuse. Generally, the first phrase you listed means something close to "The line of Battle at Nordlingen." Rex Hungariae means "the King of Hungary" The suffix of the 2nd word in this phrase is genitive; translate that as "of." So Rex=King + Hungariae=of Hungary. Et is simply "and" so the phrase indicates that the illustration is that of the troops of the King of Hungary and the Spanish Cardinal. I would translate the Dux Lotharingiae as "Duke of Lorraine." The previous statement by Waku is correct; pedites=infantry or foot troops, and equites (the old Roman word, BTW)=horse troops. The numbers that follow are certainly the numbers of soldiers in those formations.

Been awhile,
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	21-04-2001 02:42									#15
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infans, infantes = infant. It is "infant cardinal of the Spanish"

[This message has been edited by Goingonit (edited April 20, 2001).]