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Fiera
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Proud Member of the Spanish Gang
Mar 2000
time: 06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by cpoulos on 03-12-2001 02:26 AM
The page doesn't seem to be available. 
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Yes, it's probably a Geocities problem... If you're interested, I shall send you the image via e-mail. I will send it to Jay Bee as well, so he can post it here for everybody to take a look at it.
quote:
About ship movement, all ships should be submarined flagged. Anciet warships were not a factor in land warfare, as far as bombardment goes. They fought each other, and warships at least, hugged coastlines(altough there is growing prof that this might not be the case). Sub flagged, they can only fight each other, so a high movement factor is quite alright.
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Yes, the sub flag idea sounds great to me... Will it work together with the trirreme flag on, however?
quote:
Movement factors have always been off in civ-2. They are way to low, but they are tied into the combat factor, so this causes problems. There is also a perception problem. So many are used to anciet unit=1 movement factor, that they complane that units act like 'anciet panzer divions' in some scenarios. I reject this argument from an historical perspective, since I know the relation of space/time vis-a-vis the game map should be historical march time per turn=should equal movement factor, not notions that units are 'slow'.
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Yes, that's what I always thought too. In scenarios, it annoys me when it takes you 20 years to do what Hannibal was able to do in less than a year...
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Fiera
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Proud Member of the Spanish Gang
Mar 2000
time: 06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by cpoulos on 03-12-2001 11:28 AM
I just looked at the map, and it just what I had in mind.
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You know, they say great minds think alike. 
quote:
Looking back at your first post fiera, I had an idea. If Tartessos should ever fall, it could be a trigger for an event that eliminates the city completly, via a terrain change. I know this can work, because Bebro did it in Imperium Romanium with Carthage.
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Yes, that's a great idea, but again, I wonder: how would that affect the scoring system? I ask because I'll most probably use the objectives sytem, and Tartessos is surely going to be an objective.
quote:
Celts will be needed in the north for sure, so put them in the game. Numidians might be needed to put some presure on the Carthagians, or maybe heavy barbarian events to keep the Carts honest.
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Yes, I think both of them will be in. There's room for them if ther's only a Phoenician tribe (the Carthaginians), I still think I'll use kIndal's trick to force war between Carthago an some of its own cities...
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Henrik
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The European Union, Sweden, Lund
Dec 2000
time: 06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Fiera on 03-27-2001 09:45 AM
No, Henrik, it hasn't been abandoned. In fact, Chris and I are gathering ideas for it, but we're mostly using e-mail. Are you interested in what we have so far? It's not much, and I'd really appreciate it if anyone else was willing to help with comments and/or ideas.
Anyways, thanks for asking. 
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If you need any help just says so, I kind of specialise in the 16th-17th century (well I havent actually released a scenario yet, but I have one on its way ) but if there is anything I can do just ask
You could maybe post your progress in this thread, and ask for Ideas if such are needed (did you use my "continent" sugestion?).
quote:
Originally posted by Fiera on 03-27-2001 09:45 AM
P.S: Have you received my email with the saved PBEM game?
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Yes I have I will play it and send it to the next player as soon as the download of the scenario is finnished (any minute)
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Fiera
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Proud Member of the Spanish Gang
Mar 2000
time: 06:14
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As Chris have perfectly summed up, we haven't been anle to work very much on the scn lately, but we haven't given up, since we think we can really do a fun and interesting scn about this. Now that I have some time, I will reply to all your questions. Sorry for not doing this before.
Masis,
I also wondered how the Tartessian units should look like. But I happened to find a very interesting book (in Spanish) about the Ibers, explaining everything about Turdetan warriors. The Turdetans were considered the heirs of Tartessian culture by Schulten, and as our goal with this scn is to depict Schulten's theories, we'll also have it that Turdetans inherited their arms and armors from the Tartessian (in fact, Turdetan warriors clads are different from those used by other Iberian tribes in the Eastern Peninsula).
According to my references, Iberian warriors used small round shields (called caetra), made of wood and leather. They also used the dreaded curved swords known as falcata by the Romans. As for armors, they wore a simple round-shaped plate to protect their chest. I've made some further research about this, I've read that archeologists have found plates of this kind and rounded shields from the 9th, 8th and 7th century b.C., so we can't go wrong with this. It seems that also long swords of the same period have been found. You can take a look here if you're interested, unfortunately the link is in Spanish:
http://argantonio.elsendero.es/index2.html
About the unit icons that we will use, I think that I end up drawing them myself. Drawing my own units is, as most of you know, the thing I like the most about Civ2.
Henrik,
don't worry, we'll post our progress here. We have made Italy/Eastern France a separate continent from Spain/Western France. Also, passing through the Pyrenees will prove almost impossible. I think we'll most likely use your continent idea for the city of Tartessos too.
HsFB,
Thanks for your help offer, I think we don't need to make further modifications to the map, apart from clearing some forests in order to place cities. If you're interested in seeing the map, however, I'll mail it to you.
Finally,
would anyone be willing to help us with the tech tree? We already have some ideas, but unfortunately we are lacking time, so, once again, both Chris and I would greatly appreciate any help.
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Fiera
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Proud Member of the Spanish Gang
Mar 2000
time: 06:14
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That's great to hear!
I thought I'd let you know, before you start working on it, that Chris and I had already agrred that the Tartessos tech tree should be more simple than Kull's one for most issues. I don't really see the need of having techs such as "The Beak" or "The sail", which are too specific.
Regarding ships, I think I'll better post here for you what I emailed Chris a few weeks ago:
quote:
You'll probably want to check this site out:
http://phoenicia.org/ships.html
It has some pretty ancient ships images, BTW.
Given what I read there, I think taht there should be three types of war galleys: Pentakonters, Biremes and, at the end of the tech tree, Triremes. Historically, both the Phoenicians and Greeks had Biremes at the time our scn starts, but I guess we can give them just the ability of building Pentakonters and let them research for better ships.
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Apart from the three warship types, there could be a simple type of cargo ship, available just with Map Making or anything of the sort, so there are four different ships in the game, which is to say four different tech steps in naval transport/warfare. Do you find this well balanced for game play? That's the amount of research I'd like to see in the game, maybe you could use it as a guide for teh other aspects of the game.
Thanks again for your interest!
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Exile
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of the Benighted Realms
Sep 2000
time: 23:14
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Well, after some reading, I've come up with some suggestions. Firstly, my sources indicate that the period you're covering is at the cusp of the Bronze Age/Iron Age. It was apparently just at this time, in this region, that the transition from bronze weaponry to iron weaponry occurred. I would think about making that transition an essential part of the scenario. One way to do this would be to give bronze-armed troops 1 hit point and iron-armed troops 2. I have yet to find any substantial information on the ancient kingdom of Tartessos. The Penguin Atlas of Ancient History shows where it was and who was nearby, but doesn't tell me anything about force composition, culture, economy, or politics. I'm consulting other sources, of a more military history type, now. What I have discovered is that this region was contested during this period by; Greeks, Phoenicians, Etruscans, Celts. And of course there were "native" elements; the Numidian kingdoms in north Africa and the Iberians. Apparently, the Iberian penninsula was the source for mineral wealth during this period. My sources say that gold, tin, copper, lead, and especially silver were all abundant and sought after. Given that, I would certainly think about incorporating this idea of the western Mediterranean's "mineral storehouse" idea into the scenario. About the ships; my sources say that only the Greeks used the pentakonter-type warships as trading vessels; all the others apparently used more mundane craft for general purposes. The beginning of the period is, however, characterized by the sharp sea battle off Alalia on Corsica between the Phocian Greeks and the Etruscans.
Still reading.
Salutations,
Exile
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12-03-2001 20:19
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