04-05-2001 23:50									#1
	About the PBEM games..... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Guys, I'm getting quite upset about the PBEM games we are trying to play. I started the Colonies game on April 22, and have only played two turns! I can't remember the last time I saw a modern era turn. This situation is intolerable. We all agreed to play our turns promptly, but that does not seem to be the case. I delayed the modern era game once, but I gave a week's warning before doing so. The current system is not working, because of apathy on the part of some of the players. This isn't right, and it isn't what we agreed to do. It is killing the enjoyment for the other players, and it must stop! I have discussed this with some of the guys, who can post their thoughts if they like, but I won't put them on the spot. I will take the heat as the complainer, but believe me, other people are also annoyed by this situation. The only solution I can see for this tardiness is this: If you fail to play your turn within 48 hours of recieving it, your turn will be skipped, and the AI will do it for you. I don't want to resort to this, but what else can we do?!!? I'd like everyone to post their thoughts on this, and I want to hear your comments. Please don't let it come to this. Let's all live up to our commitments, and not hurt your friends by this behaviour.

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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

	05-05-2001 00:35									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I completely agree on this one. I still have painful memories of the first two PBEM I participated in (30 years war and Sp Pride). I am pretty much afraid that Colonies is gonna be another flop.... unless people seriously commit after this warning.

Come on guys, it does not take so much time to play one turn a day !

I agree with cpoulos' solution. And I'd add to it the elimination/substitution of the lazy player after the second time he misses the deadline for no reason.

	05-05-2001 00:45									#3
	Support Apolyton

that sounds like the more obvious solution but is not that easy

do you know who is the guy that plays the turn after the guy that plays the turn after you??
probably not,

the only solution is to play just with three or four guys

six or seven is too much....

	05-05-2001 00:53									#4
	Got spare money?

I Emphatically agree with both Chris and JayBee. I am very unhappy with the promptness, (or notable lack of it) on the part of some players. Guys, it takes all of 10 minutes to do a turn, save it, and pass it along via email. WHAT IS TAKING SO DAMN LONG!?!

Chris, you beat me to it. I came a hairsbreadth from making a startlingly similar statement with a new thread yesterday myself, but thought, "no, people will just think I'm a complaining tyrant, so I'd better just keep my mouth shut on this one and let things happen." Well, I am gratified to see that I'm not the only one who is unhappy with this situation. I completely agree with the new rule of skipping an irresponsible participant and wholeheartedly endorse the idea of replacing players who won't execute their turns.

Guys, I'll try to be friendly about this; if you've lost interest in the game, just say so, so we can find a replacement for you. Losing interest, or suddenly finding yourself jammed up with unexpected work is not a sin. But go ahead and tell us so that we can find a replacement and continue with the game. I think that I can speak for most of the others, the Modern Age game was developing nicely and I really don't want to see that game truncated at this point. Bow out gracefully, so that others can continue.

Salutations,
Exile

	05-05-2001 01:39									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Shaka,

I do not follow your logic regarding the number of players. Care to explain?

	05-05-2001 06:18									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

I have the last turns for both for the last couple of days.

*bows head in shame*

I'm sorry, I just kept forgetting, I have so many things on my mind.

	05-05-2001 17:21									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If the players remain dedicated to the game, and the word they gave at the start, then the number of players is not important. Even with seven players on several continents, it should take no more then 24 hours for a turn to move.

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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

	12-05-2001 11:24									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Here's a recommended set of rules:


(Assume a five person game)

1) Player1 opens play and saves the game as .NET
2) Player1 emails the game to ALL FOUR of the other players.
3) IMPORTANT: The email should be date stamped with the current time and date using Greenwich Mean Time. This establishes the baseline.
4) Player2 has exactly twenty four hours from that baseline time to complete his game and mail it off to ALL OTHER PLAYERS. In fact, every player will ALWAYS email their saved game to everyone else.
5) If Player3 DOES NOT receive the game before the deadline, he may launch the game and allow the AI to take over for Player2.
6) 48 hours from the deadline, Player4 is authorized to begin play using the LAST GAME he received (be it the email from Player1, 2, or 3).
7) 72 hours from the deadline, Player5 is authorized to begin play using the LAST GAME he received (be it the email from Player1, 2, 3, or 4).
8) Repeat for Round Two

For subsequent rounds, players may either use the original baseline as a PERMANENT date, or reset it every time Player1 sends out an email (unless HE is the laggard, in which case you return to the last established baseline.) The second option may be preferred, since it allows for the possibility of games moving along at a faster pace. A third option would be the establishment of a new 24 hour baseline with EVERY email, but that could get confusing.

	22-05-2001 04:56									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ARGH! HOW I DETEST HOTMAIL!

Downloading attachments is being a real female dog lately what with my lovemaking up IE and all... sending off turns will be delayed a little until I reinstall Win98.

Sorry guys to keep on waiting for you. But the elements are against me. It good to have understanding people like you as friends, isn't it??? nudge nudge wink wink

	25-05-2001 15:39									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

Chris,

I am totally in agreement with you. The Colonies 3.12 and Seize the Crown! games I am currently playing are both subject to huge delays.

Kulls solution seems a bit complex at the moment. I vote for your simpler "mail to the next guy AND the next guy after him" rule. I would even say 24 hours is the limit, unless by prior agreement.

OK, the AI might end up doing a few turns for even the most committed of us - real life does get in the way, occasionally.



But so what? Unless you are a pathological control freak, the AI bollixing up a move from time-to-time might add some interesting variables. All great leaders have to cope with incompetent/disloyal subordinates, after all.

How about applying this to the current Colonies 3.12 game (with everybody's agreement, first)?

John

	25-05-2001 16:18									#14
	I agree John... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I agree with you John. I think that Jesus would agree also. That leaves it up to Henrik to agree to the time limit. Since we have yet another new feature here at Apolyton, lets use it, and attach the save in a zip to our posts in addition to sending it to the next player. The reason for both is this: Sometimes you can't get to Apolyton (Jay Bee is having trouble right now), and at other times e-mail goes down, so this way a failsafe exists. It would be only to fair to all concerned.

	25-05-2001 18:37									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Agreed, Chris.

After each turn, eMail to the next bod, AND the next one after him, AND post here (or in the appropriate game thread). They are small files, after all.

It will be 24 hours before the next bod goes ahead and lets the AI play the turn of the skipped player (that's what probably happened in our Colonies 3.12 due to the non-standard turn order) - unless by prior arrangement - like somebody who knows they will be away for the weekend or on a two-day drinking session...

Henrik and Jesus, how do you feel about that for our current game?

John

	25-05-2001 21:31									#16
	Remove this text

I think that instead of sending the file via mail we should attach it to our post in the thread, this way it will be avaialable to everyone all the time (unless it is bigger than 150000 bytes in which case mail is required, but in my experience most files are smaller than that).

	25-05-2001 23:42									#17
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Henrik,

Attaching the file on the relevant thread is good, but if you can, email it too - or at least a quick note that it is there. That way the next guy gets prompted when he checks his mail, as well as when he goes to the forum.

John

PS, Chris - Colonies 3.12 is on it's way to you in 5 minutes.

	26-05-2001 16:08									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: I think that instead of sending the file via mail we should attach it to our post in the thread

that is a good idea but sometimes I play the turn without checking the forum
my internet conection it´s really bad and sometimes goes really slow

	26-05-2001 17:36									#19
	An Illustration Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Shaka Naldur that is a good idea but sometimes I play the turn without checking the forum my internet conection it´s really bad and sometimes goes really slow

Shaka's problem illustrates why both methods should be done. If the file is zipped, it will not be too large for the attachments. I have started doing it in all the games I am in, and I recomend that others do so as well.

	26-05-2001 21:32									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I agree with cpoulos

I always zip the files