15-04-2000 17:37									#1
	What will you do when you start with a hut in your initial position? Increase Your PM Length

If my hut lies on a grassland/plains,i'll build a road with one settlers until my other settlers are far enough (min 5 squares from my hut).
When i build my capital,i'll step on hut square with my other settlers.
*Poof*.....advanced tribe in about 50%,barbs in less than 5%.
Even if i don't get my advanced tribe it surely worth a try to me.
If hut lies on rough terrain,i'll try to get none-unit before i build my capital.

	16-04-2000 01:23									#2
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If you pop it before building your first city then you won't get barbs or an advanced tribe.

	16-04-2000 03:21									#3
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I found my capital several times under a goody hut, in SP as in MP.
I would always grab the hut before I build my first city. The best thing I can find is NONE horseman/chariot. The worst thing is warrior code.

	16-04-2000 09:35									#4
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The best thing is a NON unit, so always discover the hut first. Use it to explore and find other huts.

	16-04-2000 20:33									#5
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I won't poke a hut if any of my precious early settlers are around - then even when they've safely built my cities for me, I investigate only with a unit that can look after itself - like armour, or better;-). As a civ pessimist, I always regard each hut as full - of barbs! Many a game has gone by, when I've not investigated a single hut, out of fear, negligence, or higher ambitions.

	17-04-2000 03:44									#6
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George -

Many tests done by people at this site have proven that you can never get barbs from a hut before founding your first city. Never. So stop worrying and go open that hut!

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SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

	17-04-2000 05:35									#7
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It's true; you never get barbs if you enter a hut before you build your first city. I always explore for a few turns to see if I can uncover a few NON units, particularly horsemen. This lets me make a better decision on where to found the first two cities, and I might get a nice unit to explore with. After that, count on the odds: A study was done, and you get barbs only about 5% of the time. Early on, enter huts on the first turn with a horseman. This preserves the option to attack the barb that might emerge. Early, there will only be one. If you found a city, and the hut square is not worked, the hut will persist, and you can open it later. I think that this strategy will not yield barbarians, but I am not certain.

	17-04-2000 06:21									#8
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Plus, I think I remember reading somewhere, that barbs will never defeat your only defender in your only city. Just a bit more insurance for ya.

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SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

	17-04-2000 06:25									#9
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Though building initial city in hopes of advanced tribe is tempting, I go for the hut right off. The non unit is very nice. If it is a horse, I explore. If an archer (for instance), I send to my capitol.

	17-04-2000 06:46									#10
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It is uncommon, but not unheard of, to get an advanced tribe from a hut before you found any cities. It is more likely, and to me preferable, to get a horse unit or something similar. Although I used to love pulling advanced tribes out of huts, I've come to dislike it. The placement of the huts is such that the city will have only one or two specials (if any), and they tend to wreck the pattern of cities I try to acheive.

	17-04-2000 08:14									#11
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Mad Monk, this gives me another thing to be frightened about. The best I can manage for a pattern is to get most of my cities close enough together that I can build a quick road through for trade.

Despite that, I always find that something, a whale, a spice patch, or the like, is just outside the range of this city, and if I'd built it one square over, I'd have got it and the fish I was looking at.

I have never deluded myself into thinking I know more about the game than any single other person, save perhaps for someone who's going to discover the game next September, so I'm not in a sneering contest here. It's just that my semi-orghanized style of play pretty much prevents any pattern that lasts beyond the first five cities.

Jim W

	17-04-2000 08:46									#12
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Perhaps pattern is too strong a word. What I mean is, I try to arrange my cities so that there is not one single 'open' grassland or plains near them (I've gotten burned by the AI more than once), while minimizing the amount or squares doubled up. Thanks to huts, I inevitably have cities that are within one or two squares of other cities, just to claim one-by-three (or more) square strips of green leading in from the coast...
[This message has been edited by The Mad Monk (edited April 16, 2000).]

	17-04-2000 16:55									#13
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Horsemen or chariots from huts is , warrior code is .

Actually, I think that Sten tested the no-barbs-before-first-city-hypothesis. If I remember correctly he got some barbs after many, many turns. So, in practice it's nothing to worry about because you don't wait that long to found the capitol.

Carolus

	17-04-2000 18:25									#14
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I'd go for the hut pronto. As previously stated, the NON unit is everything early on. I have opened a hut in MP an found my capital. Hasn't happened to me in SP though. If you are worried about hut barbs and can afford the units, open huts in pairs: use a warrior to open and a horseman to attack if they pop out.

	17-04-2000 19:02									#15
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Or, open huts on clear terrain with a diplo. The barbs tend to have decent units, and they're relatively cheap to bribe (about 2 gold per shield, vs. 2.5 gold per shield to rush-build it yourself).

	17-04-2000 20:08									#16
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Thank you, Sand Monkey, Gentlemen - much re-assured, heigh-ho a house hunting we will go! I wonder...can one use a caravan to investigate a hut?... as I've stated on another thread, I use them for about everything else... with camels and settlers, who needs cissy units like howitzers and nukes? :-)

	17-04-2000 20:37									#17
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I'll join the crowd here...
If I see a hut on the openning screen, I delay my starting my first city (assuming there is a good place to start one) until after I've openned the hut. Since early in the game, you can only get a non-unit, money or a science, only a bad science that will slow you down to monarchy will hurt.

An early horseman or chariot can make a big difference.

On another point, in MP, I've noticed that the second city gets the same anti-barb protection that your first city does. I've seen barb chariots just die as they attack my weak warrior... and comments on this one, or am I just crazy

	17-04-2000 22:13									#18
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Ming - my experience versus barbs leads me to think that any defensive bonus given to the human player diminishes rapidly as your number of cities increases. With one city, my defender takes no damage, regardless of how numerous or strong the attackers are. With two cities, the defenders seem to do better than expected, but they do take some damage. By the time I reach 3 or 4 cities, I don't think there's any bonus at all.

	18-04-2000 05:38									#19
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In my expirience,1st two cities are barb-resistant until you build your 3rd.
So far,i only saw once barb archer killed my warrior (and my capitol with him ).
Advanced tribe about 3800bc is everything.

DaveV...your small map conquest record is shaking.
So far i made 3 bc conquests and once w/o Sun-Tzu.
All i need is little luck with AI positions.

	18-04-2000 17:29									#20
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I would have to agree with you Smartfart on the first two city rule. I've held off building my third city before, just to avoid losing a city to barbs... It sucks to have to slow down your expansion, but I have never lost a city when I have done this... even when my defensive units were really out matched.

	18-04-2000 19:38									#21
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Just to prove there are exceptions to every rule, I have lost a first (and only) city to barbs in a MP game. They can wipe you out, believe me. 'Twas a rude shock. On the other hand, I've had countless examples of barbs hurling themselves at a single warrior in an only city and bouncing off. Quick way to vet status, usually.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	18-04-2000 20:03									#22
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Yeah finbar... There are exceptions to every solid rule. You sound like you really got screwed That's the problem with civ mp, it is just so buggy that anything can happen.

But, it's better than some of the other games in the family...

	20-04-2000 09:59									#23
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I usually hit the hut right away, and yes sometimes it makes my capital. And as others have noted the dang barbs sometimes are relentless. In this duel with Milo they painted my 2d city red for some (showed on top 5 cities as red ) time till I found the right shade of blue again to doctor it up.

	23-04-2000 07:53									#24
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Oh I love huts!! I just can't stand it, I just HAVE to open them

	23-04-2000 18:02									#25
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To answer your Q, Ming; "...and comments on this one, or am I just crazy"
Yeah, U R. Why else would U B hanging around here so much?

Re: hut hunting... (assumig deity MP)
As a former balls-to-the-wall hut-hunter, i'v learned to be a little cautious after 3000BC or so, due to the REAL hordes of barbs. But in the situ S'Fart posed, GO FOR IT & don't wait until U build roads away or move your other settler away. As Ming & others pointed out... it often = a NONE unit that U can immediately use to find the best place for your capital.

As for other huts, AFTER U have established a city, I'll still usually jump them... unless i'm am closing in on a path-to-monarchy tech. I finally got it thru my thick head that if it's a "free" tech, it sets your research back significantly by increasing the # of beckers required to finish all future techs. In those cases, i'll resist instant-gratification & curiousity(try cavebear, U can do it). It's easy enuf to come back & open it after the research to done.

Thanks for the info on the 2nd city barb-safe (exceptions noted, finbar)! Every little bit helps, especially against some of the likes of U all.

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"Hm-m-m, doubt me you will?"

[This message has been edited by KenThur (edited April 23, 2000).]