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Jim W
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Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Sep 1999
time: 05:12
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I've been playing the game since last September, and very few times have I actually done what might be called "winning."
Seems like just about every game, I get up to 1500 AD, find myself with five cities and a treasury of 85 (and sometimes less). Whereupon I consider the likelihood of doing the tech advances necessary to get to AC by 2000, and come up with a figure somewhere in 2100 or so, so I quit and start a new game.
I did win one time because I had a huge whack of cities and stuff, and was just about to quit because there was no hope of getting to AC by 2000. Then I notice that there were only about five cities left unconquered, so I pulled on my G. Khan hat and went out and conquered them all. Of course, it ened up that one of the guys had built a new city in previously explored territory, so I had to go wandering all over the map to find him.
What I'm saying is, I guess I could always just go into conquest mode from the start, but I think the AC strategy is just a little more classy.
No, I'm not likely give the game up entirely, but it sure does seem to be taking me a heck of a long time to master it.
Jim W
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Should NOT have 5 citie. 25 maybe.
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DaveV
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USA - EDT (GMT-5)
Jan 1970
time: 00:12
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With all due respect, I have to disagree with Ming on the shields vs. arrows question. If the object is to crank out settlers and cities as fast as possible, a shield is worth a lot of arrows (2.5 gold = 6.25 arrows at 40% tax). When my cities are size 1, I try to max out shields, food, and arrows, with the emphasis on food. But once they reach size 2, I go for max shields. If that means working forest and sacrificing some arrows, so be it. I figure that the new city will generate more arrows later than I'm losing now.
Jim W - here's a simple algorithm for the early game: Build your first (two) city(s). Build a warrior to maintain order, a horseman to explore, and a settler to build another city. DON'T waste time irrigating, mining, or building improvements in your city. Build roads if needed, but get those early cities down ASAP! If you decide to switch to growth mode later, your cities should all be about the same size, which makes "we love the xxxx" growth spurts easier. If you want to play the "infinite cities" game, just keep cranking out settlers and building cities.
(Edited to make it clear I wasn't trying to tell Ming how to play the early game)
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited April 17, 2000).]
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Ming
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I'm glad you disagree, and you raise some fine points. But, the key is to get out of despotism. If you maximize for shields after it has gone to two pop, you will be in despostism far too long. I try to get to monarchy by 3000 BC... sooner, and I'm winning big time. If not by 2800BC, I'm getting killed if I'm playing MP. The difference between despotism and Monarchy is huge. I would rather have one less settler and get into Monarchy far faster.
I do build cities keeping production in mind.
And yes, I still crank out settlers as fast as I can, and usually build a unit or two to explore... but I will concentrate on trade arrows, not production. Given a choice of starting my first city near trade or production, I'll take the trade. In the long run, it's a better strategy IMHO 
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Ming: Monarchy in 3000BC???  
I'm happy when I reach it before 2000BC.
But in fact, I don't have many experiences in MP, and my highest rate in SP were
***ashamed***   167% ***ashamed***
with DEITY, man, with DEITY
A friend of mine has reached 130% with Warlord, so my record...sucks
I know, I know, I'm bad. I play this game since summer 1996, so this is ridiculous
------------------
"The more I know, the more do I know that I don't know anything" - forgotten who said that...  
"Within the peace, enemy attacks us..." - Kaiser Wilhelm II, August 1914 
"Hell, yeah!" - James Hetfiels, while singing "Master Of Puppets" on Metallica-S&M-concert in spring 1999 in San Francisco
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inca911
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St. Paul, MN
Jan 2000
time: 05:12
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To win this game, you need to understand:
1. How to keep your people happy (preventing civil disorder).
2. What trade arrows do for you. Trade = Science = Bombers vs. Pikeman = Victory.
3. Different benefits of different government types. Things like martial law, max number of cities per government type before unhappiness really starts up, special unhappiness factors.
4. How military units work. Things like defensive bonuses for rivers, city walls, veteran status, etc.
5. What Wonders do for you, also city improvements.
I have tried to compile answers to many of these questions (provided by myself and others, thanks to all!) in a thread entitled "Distilled Civ Tips and Notes". Give it a read through and let me know if you have any questions. I will give it a bump so it is next to this thread on the message board (or at least close). With a few tips from the experienced civ players here, you will be taming Deity level in no time. Then you have to find ways to handicap yourself against the computer or find human players!
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geofelt
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Neptune Beach,Florida,USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:12
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Jim-W; The key is to have many cities. To do this, have every city build a defender first, then build a settler just as soon as it reaches size 3. Use that settler to found a new city on any half decent spot near existing cities. Keep expanding until you run out of territory. Expand TOWARD any civ you find to deny them expansion room. in time all of these little cities will become big ones, letting you go to war, or build a spaceship. Use your settler to connect the cities by road. Irrigation does not help until you get to monarchy. I will also mine a wine or coal hill in my palace city.
Get to monarchy ASAP. If you can't research a monarchy prereq, pick bronze-working, pottery, or masonry to give you a wonder to start building. You can always switch production to a different wonder later.
Don't build any improvements early. After some size(depending on level) you will have to build a temple to keep order. Don't build markets until you are generating over 5 trade. Don't build a library until you get to 6 beakers.(my rules of thumb). If you are not building a settler or a military unit, build a food caravan to help build a wonder later(there is no maintenance cost for these).
There is a debate on maximizing trade vs shields. Both are right, and perhaps a balance is best. I find that I lose wonders because of a lack of production capacity, and not techs.
Try again, and let us know how you do.
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Jim W
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Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Sep 1999
time: 05:12
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I'm still playing at Warlord Level. I figure I won't try to get too difficult until I can win most of the time at WL.
I've been trying to keep my mind on expansion. However, I still do a bit of development around each city with each new settler (1 mine, 1 irrigation, that sort of thing.). Once I've got five cities or so, I usually set one settler or two out of the many I've got to building roads to facilitate trade.
Just recently, I've taken to watching the shield production as closely as the food production. (I think it may be something to do with the bright colour of the grain sheaves (back on the farm in my part of the world, we called them "bundles") as opposed to the darker blue of the shield.
Some time ago, I noted the advantage of Monarchy over despotism in terms of taxes and Science, and the advantage of Monarchy over Democracy in terms of the lack of a Senate to prevent me from running those Bad Guys out of my irrigated fields. So I head for Monarchy very quickly, with Bridge Building a close second.
I have not yet been able to really figure out what the trade arrows do, where they come into play, though I can see where they're produced, and manage their increase. As a result, I generally work at food and shields.
I may have downplayed my achievements too severely; I only occasionally find myself with five cities at 1500 AD. I've had worse situations; surrounded by enemies on the continent I start out in, with another enemy inhabiting the nearest land-mass to my own, making expansion very difficult, and necessitating a large concentration on defence.
The game I started just after sending off last night's whine is going a lot better, though I'm still using somewhat of a mix of the Explore-and-found cities and the Explore-found- and-develop cities mode.
As for building caravans without having roads, yes, it can be done, but having roads at least between the major cities is a massive advantage.
And in last night's game, while I was still irrigating a patch where I was about to found my first city, one of my exploring archers tipped over a hut and found an advanced tribe, which declared itself the capital. (Built the palace.) I haven't changed that because that city is in pretty much as good a position for a Science City as my first choice.
Thanks for all the suggestions, and I hope this hasn't been gone on for too long.
Jim W
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My Wife Hates CIV
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Michigan
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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A super science city and a caravan production city. A city to support military units (all your units that fight on the front).
Have enough caravans ready to build the wonders in the correct cities.
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The Mad Monk
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of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:12
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quote:
I still do a bit of development around each city with each
new settler (1 mine, 1 irrigation, that sort of thing.)
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Jim, this is your problem, right here. you have to remember that mining and irrigation take 5-10 turns a piece; at Warlord, that's 100-200 years. In the time it takes you to do either, you could take that settler, move clear of his home city, and build a new one.
Try this: do nothing with settlers except build cities--no exceptions--until you have at least ten cities. Make certain the first thing you build in each city is your cheapest defender, followed by a settler, followed by yet another settler.
Then sit back and examine the results.
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George Garrett
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Victoria. B.C. Canada
May 1999
time: 21:12
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On the other hand, Jim, you could continue to lose, gratefully, like me.
At that inevitable stage when my civ world crumbles, my citizens either vanished, or vexed, my capital, science, and production centres, tho walled and well defended, fall to the first invader, enemies abound, prospects fade away, that's when I say to my 1/1/1 20th Century warriors "How jolly! - let's quit this mess, and start a new game"
For me the best part of Civ2, is the start on a new random map, with a fresh, black slate: those first few absorbing hours of buildup in a brand-new environment, wondering what the game has in store for me...I know that sooner, or later, I'm going to get clobbered again,(in my Hall of Fame I'm rated "I the Ignominious"), but, I continue to travel, hopefully, and when I eventually stumble into involuntary confrontation with, and eventual conquest by, the 3 strongest AI civs, am I downhearted? -no!
'Cos, as the Barred has it "Now is the Winter
of our discontent-can Springing to a new start be far behind"
It's all them winners who I pity, Jim...ACing blithely in Diety by the Cro-Magnum Age,what have they to look forward to? No travelling hopefully for them - they've arrived!
All the civ world is blase, Jim, except thee and me, and even thee succeeeds sometimes!
[This message has been edited by George Garrett (edited April 18, 2000).]
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Jim W: If you are still playing in Warlord level, my suggestion is, 'just listen to the general tips, ignore the specific one'. It is half of your fun trying to figure YOUR strategy (and be beaten promptly by the experts here). Choose your style that you want to adopt and ask for specific advice on the strategy. You want to be a trader? a settler? a horseman? a scientist? a diplomat? Or combination of all that?
I have a weakeness which I still do not manage to overcome, I hope that you won't repeat it because you play against computer. You need a lot of military assets in games with human, but not with computer. Don't get spoiled by computers for keeping too little an army. If you are of the type who like using 12 crusaders to attack a city before gunpowder, just forget my previous comment.
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Ming
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I hear you... But my point is, if you fall behind in arrows, it will be difficult to catch up later. (Plus, the free science from being the first to Philosophy is a real gift ) What good are all those shields if you don't have the science needed to build the wonders you need.
Plus, in an MP game, you won't be getting tribute (unless you are playing with idiots or AI's) and you will also be getting less huts, because real people are as aggresive as you are to hunt them down.
Now, I will grant you that against the AI, just about any solid strategy will work. And your way may actually be better, since the AI cheats to develop sciences at the rate you are. But in an MP game, science and money are everything. The first person to be able to build pikeman, knights, elephants, catapults, or crusaders has a definite edge.
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17-04-2000 08:30
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