07-05-2000 01:33									#1
	Wither Aqueducts? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Might anyone know if aqeuducts become redundant after you have built sanitation in 12 + size cities? Should they just be sold off? Do terrible things happen to your cities if they are sold later on?

Thanks

	07-05-2000 03:12									#2
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you need both to keep growing past size 12 but if you are done growing a city then you should sell em

	07-05-2000 14:26									#3
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Many times I asked this question to myself! Now I'm answered. Thank you, Smash!

	07-05-2000 20:39									#4
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Sortub - I don't know how well you actually play, but I suspect you have a real future at this game. In 3 years, it never once occurred to me to even *think* about selling my aqueducts after getting sewers. I was pleased to realize that I could sell off my cathedrals after getting Mike's!

This game is hard on the literal-minded...
[This message has been edited by cavebear (edited May 07, 2000).]

	08-05-2000 00:04									#5
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Thanks Cavebear-

I've been playing this game since December, and I have won by conquest through the King level against the AI. My highest rating is a 227% -- magnificnet -- on Prince level. Unfortunately, my 56.6 modem speed is something of a deterrent for games with actual human players.

	08-05-2000 02:15									#6
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A lot of us are stuck with 56k modems. DSL and cable internet are not yet available where I am. It's not too bad if you are just a participant, but I've even hosted some games successfully.

Don't be afraid to try the next level as soon as you can beat or almost beat the AI. Losing at a higher level is more informative than winning at a lower one. Examine the AI civ from a saved game file to see how it was giving you a hard time.

Remember, the computer "cheats" in order to make the game close, and that can disguise the fact that you are actually playing better. Plus, humans don't play like the AI. The AI, for example, does not attack very well, nor is it good at rush-building a Wonder you are going for. On the other hand, the AI needs fewer shields to build things than you do, and it always "knows" where everything is.
[This message has been edited by cavebear (edited May 07, 2000).]

	08-05-2000 19:29									#7
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Cave: Let's remember this Sortub fellow for our next MP game. Maybe we can learn some things from him...or maybe it'll be the other way around.

I don't like selling my aqueducts at the end game when money becomes tight and spaceship parts are needed. I always try and make it a point to be prepared so that it is not needed. Just a limitation I put on myself.

	08-05-2000 19:46									#8
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When playing OCC or small number of cities - perfectionist style it is useful to remeber that by selling off things like the aqueduct you are not only getting a small cash boost now - you are saving yourself the upkeep for the rest of the game - a not insubstantial effect!


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	09-05-2000 09:35									#9
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Made an error here. Jumped from this thread to my game in progress, went to all the cities, and whenever any of 'em had both Aqueduct and Sewer, I sold of the Aqueduct. Nice infusion of cash, but unfortunately most, is not all, of those same cities are now complaining of thirst.

I think I should check to see if they're all past 12. I had thought they were, though.

Jim W

	09-05-2000 10:29									#10
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Actually, Jim, I believe you should wait to sell aqueducts and sewer systems until your city is at the maximum size that your grain production can support. This means that if your city is at size 15 for example, but is producing 35 grain bundles, your 15 citizens are using 30 of them and any settler or engineer is also using some. So, suppose you have 3 bundles of grain as surplus....at some point in the future your grain will cause the storage bank to be filled, and another citizen would be added to the city. But, if you no longer have an Aqueduct or Sewer System, you will NOT add the citizen. Actually, if you are missing EITHER of the Aqueduct or the Sewers, you won't be able to grow. So, wait until your grain bundles are just enough to support the total citizenry and settler/engineers homed in that city and then it will be OK to sell your Aqueduct and Sewer System. Good Civin'.

	09-05-2000 11:00									#11
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Yeah, but then your cities will reek of excrement and disease will spread, causing a slow but steady population decline even in the most modern of metropoli.

	09-05-2000 19:47									#12
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Just to add to poppa's good comments...or adjust your workers so that you don't have the 3 surplus grains. More often than not, the cash from selling those improvements and the boost in trade or shields are more important than that extra citizen, esp. when the next one will cause unhappiness problems.

	10-05-2000 11:31									#14
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Add another thought...to what Steve Clark said, by adjusting your workers so that you make the food production just enough to meet the food needs, you may free up one or more worker/citizens so you can turn them into scientists or taxmen... thereby increasing your science even more than with the worker in place, or collect a few more gold per turn to put in the always needful treasury. Good civin'.

	11-05-2000 09:16									#15
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For me, selling aqueducts and sewers is one of those things that feels like a cheat. Sure, the game only forces you to have them so your cities can grow; but logically, if you blew up your city infrastructure, your citizens would be dropping like flies before long.

	10-05-2000 22:25									#16
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this is the same as pre working settlers. the game lets you but of course it's taking advantage on the game code.

	10-05-2000 23:33									#17
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then why is there a "sell" option?

	10-05-2000 23:51									#18
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what do you mean why? so you can raise gold if needed or lower maintance cost.

the problem is there is no check for this as there is if you sell the temple. opps, disorder! They should have checked if pop>8 or pop>12 and you sell the item than the population starts to suffer. they could have put in some simple code here that would have added some cool detail to the game.

	11-05-2000 01:45									#19
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The downside to that is that a Spy sabotaging an Aqueduct could severely reduce the population - almost as good as a nuke but cheaper and no pollution.

	11-05-2000 02:21									#20
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I would imagine it would work somewhat like famine - 1 population unit lost per turn of not having an aqueduct/sewer system. This way, ou would have time to rebuild.

	11-05-2000 13:26									#21
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I think Tom's would be a good idea. Actually that's what one would expect if, suddenly a city were to be deprived of its sewer system. People would get sick or actually leave the city to find normal living conditions. Of course in a modern metropolis an aqueduct is more like a monument to the past than an actual city improvement, but modern cities have a water suply system, exactly what an aqueduct meant to be when it has created. Since there is no upgrade option, one may believe that, throughout the times (turns) the aqueduct would be upgrading to a modern water suply system. So it is much the same thing.
[This message has been edited by Ecowiz (edited May 11, 2000).]