24-05-2001 01:02									#1
	Anyone else underwhelmed by the unit graphics? Got spare money?

Is anyone else anyone else underwhelmed by the unit graphics?

To me they seem small, fuzzy (ie.unclear was to what each unit is and its civ affliation, esp. in comparison with CTP II and even Civ II), undetailed and dark. I really hope that the units will improve before the release.

Just a thought

	24-05-2001 01:08									#2
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I like them.

	24-05-2001 01:10									#3
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I'm a bit underwhelmed by the graphics in general. Everything seems fuzzy and blurry, though I suppose that's a real time lighting effect.

	24-05-2001 01:20									#4
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I believe there may be a mush higher zoom level then on the current screen shots. The main clue is both the fact that all units will be animated, and that the unit pictures at Firaxis webpage that are mush larger then that size. As far as I know the new graphic engine is still in development, and they are using the one from SMAC, till they get one supporting the new animated units.

	24-05-2001 01:26									#5
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Ah, I did not know that. There's hope then because the current screen shots are not very exciting.

	24-05-2001 01:32									#6
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Maxim No 1: When you become distressed about civIII's units, remember those gigantic, silly animated units of CTP.

Maxim No 2: Realize that you don't need a second maxim.

	24-05-2001 01:44									#7
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I liked some of the early units, but I thought the map screenshot was alarmingly dark. I am actually worried about that, as I found SMAC depressing for that reason. I think that the animation of units is one of those effects which we will turn off after the first few games, like the music and the wonder movies, but it sure looks like they are having fun putting it together

	24-05-2001 02:00									#8
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I dunno. They seem all right by me. Maybe a bit sharper units, that's all.

	24-05-2001 02:50									#9
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I expected better graphics, if these are final it will be dissapointing on that front, but for me graphics are minor issue anyway and if the game playts well I won't care.

If the game plays badly, and the graphics are great I certainly won't spend too much time looking at pretty graphics...

	24-05-2001 03:07									#10
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I like the gfx, and for me the screenshots looked not too dark. For a civgame just right

	24-05-2001 03:17									#11
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My personal opinion si that they have started using the new graphic engine and the grphics are close to finalized. I think all the graphics looks nice. Civ have never been a superb 3D game and never will be. It just wouldn't work on a game like Civ. If you wan't greate graphics ...... play Black & White or somthing.

I think the graphics will work superb in Civ3

	25-05-2001 05:41									#12
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Follow this link for the most detailed screenshot i have seen to date. The murky graphics no longer appear so murky, and there appears to be real depth now

With the expected new graphics engine yet to come, it is very promising indeed!

My earlier fears of the graphics have almost faded completely I think the graphics depicted in the link are superb. We may just get the 'epic' game we have been waiting for, as the graphics suit the feel of the game immaculately

Civ3 - bring it on!!! (salivate, drool, drool)

	25-05-2001 09:10									#13
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while believe that gameplay and ai is far more important than graphics, i would have problem playing the game if it had bad graphics. I cant seem to get into civ1 at all, and i figure that civ2 would be the same way except that i cant find where i put it .

i also agree the more recent screen shots are really looking good, and my worries about the earlier screens have vanished, they make me want to play it right now!

	25-05-2001 11:28									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Lung With the expected new graphics engine yet to come, it is very promising indeed!

Expected new graphics-engine? Fill me in here - have I missed something? Anyway; Both the unit-graphics and the advisor/diplomacy-screen shown so far is absolutely stunning.

The only minor thing I dont like is the irrigation-graphics that gives my quagmire-associations. I say, make the irrigation-canals more thin, and let them appear in regurlary straight patterns (in princip, like they did in civ-2) so it looks obviously man-made. Also, some hint of crop actually growing there would be nice.

Personally, I would prefer ocean-squares in light- to medium-blue nuances only. Not turquoise blue-green nuances.

Finally, the maps looks too flat. It should have at least two height-levels (elevating landmass somewhat above ocean), or perhaps even four height-levels (ranging from deep ocean to highlands).

	25-05-2001 17:33									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Ralf The only minor thing I dont like is the irrigation-graphics that gives my quagmire-associations.

I think that there will be at least two types of irrigation like in Civ2, at the least, irrigation and farmland. So this complaint should be answered if we see late game screenshots (the Baltimore screenshot is obviously a much older build then the Gamespy shots). I'm sure the later food tile improvement will look more like cropland.

I like the current look of the game. It's very detailed, throw in some animation and I'm pretty happy. A little more map height difference would be nice, but otherwise I'm happy with how things are shaping up.

	25-05-2001 18:04									#16
	A response Tired of ads?

For those of you who think that the graphics are excellent, look at the new screenshot. Can you tell me what the units are coming out of "Hunt Valley" or "Waukegan"? (BTW, can you really read the city names easily?)

Wouldn't you agree that this is a very difficult task because the units are fuzzy, dark and share the same colour palette as the cities and terrain? Moreover, does the Knight unit stand out from the background? Would you have noticed it, beside the iron, without looking hard?

The first test of whether of not the units are great is the ability to identify them and to tell them apart from one another visually. Civ III's unit graphics are not there yet. In this respect, Civ II's and CTP II's graphics were superior (even though Civ II's graphics were not animated and CTP II's were cartoon-like and perhaps too large).

	25-05-2001 18:40									#17
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Looks like a samurai almost

	25-05-2001 20:18									#18
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I still say that the detailed custom graphics that someone like Capt Nemo built for his Civ2 WW2 scenarios cannot be improved upon for Civ given it's scale - animated or not. You are dealing with units that will be displayed at about 1/2-inch on the screen.

	25-05-2001 20:30									#19
	Re: A response Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Bubba For those of you who think that the graphics are excellent, look at the new screenshot. Can you tell me what the units are coming out of "Hunt Valley" or "Waukegan"? (BTW, can you really read the city names easily?) Wouldn't you agree that this is a very difficult task because the units are fuzzy, dark and share the same colour palette as the cities and terrain? Moreover, does the Knight unit stand out from the background? Would you have noticed it, beside the iron, without looking hard? The first test of whether of not the units are great is the ability to identify them and to tell them apart from one another visually. Civ III's unit graphics are not there yet. In this respect, Civ II's and CTP II's graphics were superior (even though Civ II's graphics were not animated and CTP II's were cartoon-like and perhaps too large).

One of the problem with critiquing the unit graphics based on screenshots is you don't get any sense of the animation or sound, both of which have a big impact on how you perceive a given unit. The knight, for example, is quite hard to miss when he's galloping around the map. I personally never have any problems seeing my units on the map when I'm playing, but then there is a world of difference between a screenshot and a game with motion and sound.


Dan

	25-05-2001 21:20									#20
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Animation and Sound? How could the Knight unit be galloping around the map when it's sitting on a tile waiting for the next turn? What about those (most?) that will be turning animation off? And finally, what about those that will not or in my case, cannot rely on game sounds? Each unit should be clearly distinguishable regardless of animation or sound.

	25-05-2001 22:37									#21
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Animation? Does it mean that the new engine is running?

	25-05-2001 22:46									#22
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I am sure that all graphics will just find in the final release.

	25-05-2001 23:36									#23
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I think they're nice. i know they're just a representation of unit(s) you have on the board, i think it's kind of silly that the representation of a warrior could be as large as the representation of a city.

an army marching out of a city.
what is that? a warrior comming out of his hut?

	26-05-2001 00:04									#24
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They're not all that bad, but overall I think this game has to look good as well as play well.


I think they're on the right track.

	26-05-2001 00:45									#25
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So far I have liked the unit graphics but still am worried about the actual map. I still would like the map to be more fluid and have some differences in elevation. I know that most of you disagree but playing on a flat map after SMAC is not something I look forward to.

As for color use, the City View colors are absolutely gorgeous. Why are these main colors not being used in the screen shot maps? Instead are these lighter brighter colors that are not that appealing nor do they want to make me become a part of my country.

	26-05-2001 05:14									#26
	Re: Re: A response Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS One of the problem with critiquing the unit graphics based on screenshots is you don't get any sense of the animation or sound, both of which have a big impact on how you perceive a given unit. The knight, for example, is quite hard to miss when he's galloping around the map. I personally never have any problems seeing my units on the map when I'm playing, but then there is a world of difference between a screenshot and a game with motion and sound. Dan

Maybe you should try releasing the game and see if we still don't like the graphics then ah go on.

	26-05-2001 13:41									#27
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grahpics. hah. i've had my fill of stunning grahpics from the week i played black and white. yes, they were stunning, the sunsets simply blew me away. but the fact that actual game was utterly scripted, and shallow as a mud puddle kind of detracted from my enjoyment of the game. but dang, those were some nice sunsets.

	27-05-2001 07:51									#28
	Got spare money?

quote: One of the problem with critiquing the unit graphics based on screenshots is you don't get any sense of the animation or sound, both of which have a big impact on how you perceive a given unit. The knight, for example, is quite hard to miss when he's galloping around the map. I personally never have any problems seeing my units on the map when I'm playing, but then there is a world of difference between a screenshot and a game with motion and sound.

In both CTP games, all units are animated and have sound effects and I never turn off the Units sound.

quote: Animation and Sound? How could the Knight unit be galloping around the map when it's sitting on a tile waiting for the next turn? What about those (most?) that will be turning animation off? And finally, what about those that will not or in my case, cannot rely on game sounds? Each unit should be clearly distinguishable regardless of animation or sound.

[The Horse will walk over to the next tile.
If they turn the animation off then they will be missing a part of the game.
If you cannot hear, then maybe you and other deaf people could start asking computer gaming co. to place script at the bottom of the screen so you understand what is going on. (Just like TV)

	27-05-2001 08:24									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Venom I'm a bit underwhelmed by the graphics in general. Everything seems fuzzy and blurry, though I suppose that's a real time lighting effect.

Grrrr. It's good if something looks fuzzy!!!

	27-05-2001 08:43									#30
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I've receved many reviews recently from the E3 convention. Gamespot, Gamespy, Zdnet and a few others. I've followed the convention throughout it's entirety via the web, as I couldn't be there in person But what upset me alot about the strategy reviews, screenshots, ratings, and the Gamespot, Gamespy, and Zdnet awards....was that Civ3 didn't rate highly at all. I'll admit that alot of these web corporations may be biased towards one game or another....But when I looked through alot of the video streams, screenshots, and more detailed analysis of many of the upcoming games, it just seemd that Civ3 wasn't covered as well as I would have liked. I'll admit that after seeing the graphics I was a bit disappointed. The units looked like new civ2 sprites. I hope they appear better in the final graphic/game engine. The world map seemed somewhat lacklustre also, but still I'm going on screenshots of an incomplete product. The current town graphics look quite impressive, as do the Diplomatic screens.
Apart from all the graphics though, the trade and diplomacy features of the upcoming Civ3 sound far more advanced than any of the games E3 rivals in the strategy gaming reviews. I'm glad some of the E3 games reporters saw fit to mention the areas in which Civ3 will leave it's competitors for dead.
Anyways...just a ramblin opinion...