13-05-2000 01:20									#1
	What have been some of your "ultimate challenge adventures " in SP? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

OCC remains one for me to try some day.

In the past I can remember waiting to launch to AC until hopefully all the world was full of fully developed cities all trade routed to an ecologically enhanced (yes they allow you to transform their ground when you have a carrier with a couple stealth fighters watching over their riflemen defended city) remaining Babylonian city with greatest trade potential.


**The game as allways was deity, RH, wet-warm, archapelago, large world, 7 civs. restarts allowed for AI's destroyed.

Goals in this game that kept the interest alive for me until cycling through endless cities finally fried me was:

a)To find the GREATEST INITIAL CASH OUTLAY of gold on establishment of a trade route.
I do remember getting near 2000, for oil on demand once, and around 1000 occasionally for stuff.

b)To seek the GREATEST SIZE TRADE ROUTE
memory says it was around 24 or 26 not sure.

c)to see what the HIGHEST POPULATION could be reached by the deadline

d)to try to keep the TOP FIVE CITIES blue (my civs color) through the game.
Usually n/p

e)Keep SPOTLESS REPUTATION throughout game

Who me be despicable?

f)see if HIGHEST CIV SCORE could be reached this way or by fastest bloodlust conquest.
Can't remember highest score but one of my Son's "Bogus Ben" of the Bogus still has the title on it in my family before MP. It was way up there. On the older (amiga)versions of civ we would often max the game out as it had an upper limit of pop before it crashed. I don't think it would let you have quite 100 million.

g) last but not least~ GET ALL WONDERS.

This is very hard to do and can not remember accomplishing it totally, tho I got the best ones. In old civ I think I did it as there were fewer wonders.

Those were mine what are/were yours?

What are some results in the above catagories you would like to share?

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The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

	13-05-2000 01:25									#2
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Here is my personal SP challenge: keep all AI civs intact and alive until 2019, then wipe them all out at once.

I've tried this several times, but have not been able to pull it off so far. One of three things will happen: (1) one of the AI civs kills another (before I achieve diplomatic control), (2) barbarians wipe someone out early on, or (3) I don't have quite enough "oomph" to conquer the world on the final turn.

I'll keep trying, though. :-)

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JERandall
[This message has been edited by JERandall (edited May 12, 2000).]

	13-05-2000 01:31									#3
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In old civ you got a higher score for the longer you remained at peace before the end, so you had to do your dirty work very early and select that one Baylonian Perfectionist city to trade with and keep alive so you didn't conquer the world while you build. You must remain at peace with this city to have a decent peace bonus on your score

Also the highest possible initial cash trade bonuses are when you deliver a demanded later commodity like oil or uranium,

AND AND AND

the city you sent it from demands something from the city you deliver to.

Say Crustyhavn supplies demanded oil to Babylon, and Babylon has gems that Crustyhavn demands, then with one fell swoop you have a 2-way demand score!!! Eurika!!

	13-05-2000 01:36									#4
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Interesting idea JERandall.

My favorite way to take out an AI civ it to capture its capital, then bribe the remaining cities so they stay intact. Takes a bit longer if capital moves a few times.

BTW there was a Joey Randall across the street from me when i was a kid in Fresno.

	13-05-2000 03:50									#5
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My favorite was breaking the 20,000 point barrier. Rah had a 16,000+ game, I was damned if I was going to let that stand.

I've never been so bored in my life... it took months. I finally launched the ship early once I crossed 20,000. 30,000 is possible using the food caravan trick
Never again...

	13-05-2000 04:00									#6
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My fav was a 100x100 map, non-restarting 7 civ, all out attack fastest conquest. Talk about a slow way to go fast! I don't think I ever finished that one. Exploring the map was really fun, and attacking everything I found instead of waiting until I had a superior force kept me on my toes.

20k, I almost died of boredom getting to 10k... I salute your competitive vindictiveness!

	13-05-2000 04:25									#7
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The only thing that kept me going was beating Rah! Brotherly love

	13-05-2000 06:02									#8
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Never tried the food caravan trick. I have read about it tho. An increase of 50% from that alone!?!?! Pretty nice scores I'd say!
I hear ya on the tedium of it all, getting so many cities going.

But that would be a great challenge!

	13-05-2000 18:40									#9
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No, it isn't really a challange, just a waste of time.
Eliminate all AI cities but one.
Build Max Cities.
Terriform the entire planet to maximize food
Start building food caravans
EVERY STINKING TURN, MOVE ALL THE DAMN FOOD CARAVANS... hit enter.

Challange, nahhhh... just boring as hell.
Never again!

	14-05-2000 09:09									#10
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I am (unsuccessfuly) trying to beat Dave's record in fastest conquest on a small map,but cannot beat 100bc (i did it 3x on 100bc and several times before 1ad).
However,i'll not rest until i break that barrier :P

	14-05-2000 09:20									#11
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I tried to earn the "Magnificent" title in one game, just to see what it would take. That required about 20 size 25 cities and about 2/3 of the wonders, for a 6500 or so score. That was enough for me.

I usually play deity, seven civs, raging hordes, large map, and limit myself to eight or ten cities. This makes the game go faster, and large land area makes the expansionist AI more of a threat late in the game. I almost always finish with a spotless reputation and don,t usually need to bribe cities. Bribing units, however, is another matter.

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"I fear that I shall die a Prince."
-Edward VII, Prince of Wales

	14-05-2000 20:09									#12
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What is the top name you can get? I try to win as quick as possible, so usually I only end with a score of 2000 or so, and named the Lion Heart

	15-05-2000 17:04									#13
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I like the earliest (whatever) challenges. It's really boring managing a lot of cities and not really much of a challenge out-producing the AIs (even with their production cheats). And it's not a challenge at all winning a war against the AI...

SmartFart - . I was really lucky that game.

	15-05-2000 20:55									#14
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Actually, instead of winning the most, how about winning with the least? Take Crusty's initial list and reverse it. Winning with the least amount of cash, no trade routes, worse reputation, no cities in the top 5, etc. We've already done no wonders (easier than it looked), fewest cities (one), etc. I can't imagine trying to manage 20 very large cities, I only have the patience to manage one science city and about 10 smaller ones.

	15-05-2000 22:51									#15
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Steve Clark - not meaning to be cute here, but all I'd have to do is leave 5 AI cities standing and go to AC to do what you're describing. In my typical ICS game, I never have any city in the top 5, never set up trade routes, and always finish with an atrocious reputation.

	16-05-2000 01:22									#16
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DaveV-I have also been gunning for that record but am having a helluva time.No prob conquering the world by 400AD or so.Had a few early AD games but can't quite save those turns I need to.

questions:

1.What kind of small map? completely random or did you go for continents? for example

2.Did you get any help?(ai destroyed by barbs or each other)

3.Did you go heavy on hut hunting and take out a few that way?

4.Elephants or knights?something else?

5.what civs?
I notice some civs(England for example) build barracks and walls early.Would this make a difference?

I always seem to get a few "stubborn" cities on rivers with walls and barracks.I lose many turns on these cities

6.Did you have any techs to start?I go for Monarchy>Feudal>Chivalry>attack(Smartfart).I will trade for any pre-reqs I can.What happened in your record?

7.Wonders-I was building Sun's but have been trying barracks and Gardens to get max production out of small cities.Did you build any?

	16-05-2000 02:00									#17
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Smash:

1. Random. Not a great starting position, actually - I was in a corner of a single continent.
2. I know one Japanese city was destroyed (the names were out of sequence). I destroyed/captured three cities each for 5 AI civs. I don't think the orange civ could find a staring place on the map.
3. I tipped 16 huts, picking up 1 horsemen, 1 chariot, 4 archers, 1 knight, 425 gold, Pottery. Got a barb horsemen out of one hut.
4. Knights (vets, see #7).
5. Japanese, French, Egyptians, Chinese, Indians. I never encountered a walled city.
6. No starting techs.
7. Sun Tzu, no HG

I have a log file and some save files; I could email them to you if you want.

	17-05-2000 01:28									#18
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I imagine you use ICS.Last night I did my first attempt using ICS and conquered the world in 200BC.Or at least I though I did.I couldn't figure out why I didn't get the guillotin screen.Until I saw there was 1 civ left .Took another 600 years to build boats and get to them.

Had a nice river system for my first 4 cities but I always seem to get something like above.1 civ on an island.A few walled river cities...argh.

This is very difficult challenge.I shouldn't say "no prob" by 400AD cuz its not quite that easy.You need to get fortunate to break AD

It really helps if you can get some gold huts early.

I will keep trying

	17-05-2000 17:52									#19
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Smash: once i have Sun-Tzu i switch all my production to knights...even if that means i'll have defenseless cities on board.

I use entertainers alot and i don't bother with huts except in 1st millenium.

I don't use ICS. I rather build my cities far away one from another because i cover larger part of map and my knights need less turns to reach their target.
It really doesn't matter if you start with or without techs.
With-some but not ALL of AI's are close to you.
W/O -you're alone and you can expand w/o worries that AI charriot will bump in your fresh city and demand 150 gold from you.
By the time you have enough money to rush STWA,you'll have all techs you want even if you had a clean start.

All my maps are completely random.

	17-05-2000 22:54									#20
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I 've got it timed pretty good so that Sun's is ready by the time I get Chivalry then science goes to zero.I'll up luxuries as "extra"unhappies appear.

The biggest problem I have is finding all the ais and getting my first 4 cities down ASAP.

For this challenge I want to have at least 4 cities and be in or very near to Monarchy by 3000bc or so.Thats not so easy.

I just finished a 200AD game where I got 2 advancers and 100 gold in my first 5 huts.That made a big difference.I had all my cities(6) built by 3000BC.

I did another 200AD game where I built nothing but non vet horseman.It takes alot of horseman to take a phalanx defended river city

These 2 games went very well but I'm still many turns away.I may be at this one awhile

someone remind me not to play MP duels against DaveV or Smartfart
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited May 17, 2000).]

	18-05-2000 09:20									#21
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I find the nomad challenge pretty challenging (see lancer's thread in the general/community forum for more info)

and i've yet to try the OCC, it just goes against my basic civ-playing instincts

	18-05-2000 17:32									#22
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The most fun has been OCC.

But I think fastest conquest is the ultimate challenge for me. I'm a crappy warrior and would really have to struggle to get below even 1000 AD.

GP suggested an interesting one: keep hitting space bar, doing nothing. Wait as long as possible before founding the first city and then try to win the game (either way).

If I remember correctly he successfully waited until 1000 AD, maybe even later.

The most boring, my own "staying in despotism" (the whole game). Never finished any tries... Slow!

Carolus

	18-05-2000 22:31									#23
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Smash: now when you mentioned it...an idea of turning down science to zero and increasing luxuries to 30% never stroke my mind