26-05-2001 00:39									#31
	Put an end to popups!

Slow down the horses, fella... I have indeed been banned for a week for each DL that was discovered by a mod... Strategist, Diplodocus... that's about it... Leprechaun doesn't count, only 2 posts ...neither does Horned Reaper, made 0 posts with him beforeit was shut down... but that is the **** about it!

	26-05-2001 01:20									#32
	Support Apolyton

That's the point Ecth... Kitty's DL's weren't discovered, she just claimed to have three, so, after originally saying he didn't care, MtG gave her another three weeks.

	26-05-2001 07:56									#33
	Re: Re: Re: That Dog Don't Hunt Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by AnnC There are none to be found, I'm sure, since no doubt they get deleted almost as soon as they are posted.

Hardly, but if it really makes you feel better. Whenever someone has asked about ACOL or ACOLytes (from seeing the name or reference in posts involving ACOLytes, Ming or I or someone have given a link to ACOL. People here rarely start threads about the place, I've never deleted one, and I can't recall Ming or Mark deleting one, either, that wasn't "hey, look at what we're saying about the polytubbies." ACOL related threads here? There probably haven't been ten in the last year, and only one or two of those have been wiped that I can recall. Now, bottoming from lack of interest is another story.

We get occasional threads about CivFanatics and other sites, mostly due to crossover posters, and I don't remember more than a tiny minority of them being deleted either, and then only for the same reasons as any other thread.

	26-05-2001 08:04									#34
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by AnnC connor, many threads have disappeared from these forums minutes after they were posted because your moderators (by their own admission) are in the habit of deleting threads that they consider silly or useless. So you probably wouldn't know if an ACOL thread had been posted and then deleted.

Well, I'd say I'm in more of a position to notice than most.

The deletion or closure rate in the OT averages about 1.5 to 3 percent a week of all threads created, since the eight hour rule (now twice a day) was instituted.

That doesn't count threads we used to routinely close at 150 posts, so they'd be continued in a new thread. With vBulletin, we don't have the indexing and load time problems we had with UBB.

When the OT is at its absolute spammiest, the deletion or closure rate is barely over 10 percent. Other times, it's about 1 percent. So hardly a crisis, nor an explanation for the lack of interest in ACOL related threads here.

BTW - the reason I added onto the ban for Kitty's professed DL's is simple. She said she doesn't care if she's banned under that name, she'll still post here when she wants. Since she doesn't care, I don't care either.

And Gibsie - what I said is if someone creates a DL, that isn't blatant (i.e. flaming, trolling, etc.) I can't be arsed to hunt them down, I've got better things to do. When someone says they don't care about a ban, because they've got DL's and can post whenever they want, that does not meet my criteria of not being blatant.

	26-05-2001 08:48									#35
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I think it's too harsh.

I don't know ACOLKitty and I don't go to ACOL, but isn't a person presumed innocent until proven guilty?

It seems that the 10 days for spamming is fine, but the rest is just too subjective if you ask me. Of course, MtG may have more evidence of what's going on.

	26-05-2001 11:07									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

MtG, 1.5 to 3 percent is an appallingly high rate.

In the entire history of ACOL, only 6 threads have been deleted. Five were vandalized by a smilie-bomber and I couldn't repair them, and the sixth was a porn thread that the originator refused to edit.

I am embarassed that you were ever a Cleaner (moderator) at ACOL.

	26-05-2001 11:12									#37
	ACOL--the red headed step child Support Apolyton

I think it's funny. ACOL has a bad case of site envy. They talk about poly all the time. Funny thing is though people do ask about what is so special about ACOL. They find a link and maybe go there once or twice and find out that nothing goes on there. It also has a bad case of the cult of personality. You think poly has a problem with cliques, go to ACOL

	26-05-2001 11:30									#38
	Increase the size of your Attachments

(edit - reply is to AnnC's post two posts above.)

When several threads duplicate the same subject at the same time, or when we have the 50th incarnation of "Poll: what's your favorite color" or when people request their own threads be closed, or when someone starts a thread with racist or similar hate language (I guess you missed the three "retard" threads Ming and I closed - they had such <i>special</i> sentiments expressed in them, for full view of the many new registrants we get every week.) Yes, by all means, people's perceived rights to post in violation of our rules must be preserved. How dare we?

You have a different site, with a much smaller, more close knit community, with relatively few new people coming in. ACOL's situation as a site is not comparable Apolyton's. It's not a knock on you, your efforts to support ACOL, or ACOL itself. It's two different sites, with two different orientations.

quote: I am embarassed that you were ever a Cleaner (moderator) at ACOL.

And thanks for the personal endorsement Ann. Just remember, (you weren't registered there yet, so maybe you don't know), I'm the poster who talked Justin into creating a Random Chat forum in the first place, so ACOL could accomodate the community that was departing alpha.owo

I would have expected you, as a site owner and as a mature adult and a professional, to separate my enforcing the policies of this site (albeit strictly), from that sort of petty, purely personal commentary. Obviously my expectations were higher than was warranted.

	26-05-2001 11:32									#39
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think MTG has shown himself unsuitable to be a mod - his approach seems to have more to do with his own internal dramas than fairness.

Ming is always moderate in his punishments - and he gives warnings. He's much more likely to just close or delete a thread than ban someone.

MLeonard is the best - he's active but almost invisible.

	26-05-2001 11:37									#40
	Put an end to popups!

Why am I not surprised at the horses response to this thread?

	26-05-2001 11:48									#41
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Everyone:

Is there some sort of unsanctioned "war" going on among some ACOL and Apolyton posters?

CYBERAmazon

	26-05-2001 12:16									#42
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by DaShi MtG, I see about 10 days for a valid ban. The rest was outside the forum. I thought the purpose of Apolyton's rules was to promote fairness and thoughtful discussion. How has that been accomplished here?

Good question.

First, the purpose of Apolyton's rules is to prevent abuse and disruption of the site.

If the ban <i>really</i> affected Kitty's ability to post, that would be one thing. She has repeatedly pointed out it does not.

My normal practice on banning someone is to talk to the party afterwards - usually, they want to talk to me. For some posts, particularly those that are hate oriented, or offensive in the extreme (like a recently deleted remark about raping a coed), I don't shorten the ban.

If I talk to someone, and we can talk reasonably, I'll shorten the ban to half, sometimes less. I've done that for almost every ban of longer than a day. In Kitty's case, she made it clear she wanted the ban, expected it, was trying to get it with her posts, and that it was virtually meaningless except for fun. I don't dislike Kitty personally, and our ICQ talk was low key and perfectly civil (minus a couple of expletives she called me all in good fun. ) But she made it plain that the ban was meaningless and she'd post whenever she felt like it, under one name or another.

So if I reduce a ban because I'm reasonably able to discuss the situation with the poster, and reach an agreement to reduce the ban, in return for the poster's behaving within the rules, what should I do with someone I know very well (almost two years now), who totally blows the ban off as inconsequential?

41 days might actually represent a tiny inconvenience to Kitty. It might not. If it does, she can talk to me about it. I don't even really care if she fesses up her two remaining DL's (one got nailed by Ming), if she agrees not to pull the same kind of crap, where she was deliberately provoking a ban. If she can't agree to that, then she doesn't need to post here, and the rest of us don't need the disruption. It's that simple.

	26-05-2001 12:20									#43
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I think MTG has shown himself unsuitable to be a mod - his approach seems to have more to do with his own internal dramas than fairness.

Always good to hear from you Horsie. If my approach was based on my "internal dramas" you'd never see or hear from me. I have better things to do in real life.

When is the foal due, anyway? Monday's a half year already for Ian

Cyber - not that I'm aware of.

	26-05-2001 15:05									#44
	Support Apolyton

The ban is totally incorrect.

	26-05-2001 16:49									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat I have better things to do in real life.

Following the logic of that thought I'm pleased to learn you'll be announcing your resignation shortly.

	26-05-2001 17:16									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

MtG, I still feel that it is a little extreme, but I understand your reasoning.

	26-05-2001 18:25									#47
	A lot fo talk about nothing... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Seems to me that Kitty, MikeH and the ACOL bunch got what they wanted, which was to get people talking about their site at Apolyton. From the looks of things, this whole stunt was based around just that. It leads me to believe that in the 'get a life' department, many are sorely lacking...

	26-05-2001 19:17									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

And yet ACOL goes on, year after year, WITHOUT moderation.

	26-05-2001 22:11									#49
	Inflate your Upload Space

The smaller the site, the more easily that can be done. You should know, Horsie, you're a very small site owner.

(Glad to see it's still going, BTW)

And no resignation, for now, I'll just use my time efficiently.

	27-05-2001 05:10									#50
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I think MTG has shown himself unsuitable to be a mod - his approach seems to have more to do with his own internal dramas than fairness. Ming is always moderate in his punishments - and he gives warnings. He's much more likely to just close or delete a thread than ban someone. MLeonard is the best - he's active but almost invisible.

The fact that you have earned AH's ire must put you at the front of the Moderator line. Come on Ming, and Mleonard, get with the program.

	27-05-2001 05:31									#51
	But of course... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MBloomIII The fact that you have earned AH's ire must put you at the front of the Moderator line. Come on Ming, and Mleonard, get with the program.

Horsie's ire is about the best endorsement one could have for this job.

	27-05-2001 07:26									#52
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Of course when people are showing what fools they are, they usually can't see it themselves. And others can't tell them either. But then usually one day, they suddenly see it. Then the fun starts.

Personally, I don't take it up the arse for anybody. I don't do the bidding of others. I certainly don't shaft other people to keep bosses happy. I don't want the ability to lord it over people. It gives me no pleasure. I certainly don't get an erection out of that sort of thing and want to use the smilie.

Of course I render unto Caesar like everyone else but these days I have no desire to be a Caesar, and still less one of his willing henchman.

But then maybe I'm a fool - its cost me a lot in life. There's a price to be paid for being like that. But I'm always amazed at how willing others are to take on roles like punisher, banner, controller - and to then inflict on others once they have those powers - usually for fear of losing these petty perceived advantages. I guess that's the dark side of the human spirit.

Does HK's 41 days matter in the great scheme of life? No. Do I think it was proportionate, well motivated and fair? No just the same.

Bah! I'm far too philosophical today - pearls to swine, pearls to swine.

Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 27-05-2001 at 07:49

	27-05-2001 07:49									#53
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Personally, I don't take it up the arse for anybody. I don't do the bidding of others.

I thought you worked for the government?

quote: I certainly don't get an erection

Well, you are 2300 years old.

quote: But then maybe I'm a fool. There's a price to be paid for being like that. But I'm always amazed at how willing others are to take on roles like punisher, banner, controller - and to then inflict on others once they have those powers. I guess that's the dark side of the human spirit.

Such eloquence, expended on behalf of such triviality. ...

quote: Does HK's 41 days matter in the great scheme of life? No.

Especially when she'll be posting Monday or Tuesday, depending on when she gets back from her weekend trip, with one of her two remaining logons, assuming she hasn't got more.

If she wasn't out of town, she'd be posting now.

	27-05-2001 07:52									#54
	Render unto Caesar the things that are spam Inflate your Upload Space

Yes, I'm not sure if I should have posted those thoughts - they really don't belong here.

	27-05-2001 08:52									#55
	Re: Render unto Caesar the things that are spam Inflate your Upload Space

ROFLMFAO!!!

Render unto Caesar...

You should be in advertising, you find a way to get your message in anywhere. True talent.

	27-05-2001 23:18									#56
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

MikeH you supported ACOL Kitty and MarkG's quest to have my EthnicCleanser username removed or changed , however you want to put it. Yet from reading what MTG has to say about some of the posts from ACOL Kitty, how can you even begin to believe that the ban isn't deserved?

I don't see how ethnic cleanser is anywhere near as bad as this(especially as it was a username) its not like i went around making jokes about it.....or targeting a specific group or race ........

Seems to me that your choice of what is right and wrong is based soley on the fact that you "know" ACOL Kitty and don't know me. Perhaps you jumped on the MarkG bandwagon just to up your post count or perhaps we just feel differently about things.

At any rate , not looking to flame an old topic but just trying to see what makes people whom they are

	28-05-2001 03:19									#57
	I still think your name sucks War :) Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes but none of the things cited for this very long ban are in fact worth a ban at all. You weren't banned were you War?

Take the vomit picture - that has been posted more than once -Dracon even had it on his web site and trailed it around on his sig for a long time. Of course Mike wouldn't know that because he's not an OT vet.

Calling people names? Gee, that's new. Hardly ban material.

Saying she had 3 D/Ls? Lots of people make jokes like that, including me. This is the first time anyone has had a ban slapped on them for that, and a massive ban at that.

One of the problems here is that the jackboot mod in question just doesn't have a "feel" for the OT. He doesn't know so he stomps around making an ass of himself and losing old friends at quite an astounding rate as a result. Ming was handling HK quite effectively without all this drama.

MarkG is strict about off topic posting on the on topic forums, that could get you a short ban, but that's about it.

So who is supporting him? Basically a bunch of OT newbies who have equally little understanding of the OT and its history. Figures.

I know what he's trying to do but I don't like the scapegoat approach. Sooner or later you run up against someone who won't lie down and there is a lot of trouble someone like that could cause for the whole site, though hacking etc.

Walk softly is my advice to the newbie mod.

	28-05-2001 04:02									#58
	Horsie's steaming "pearls" of wisdom. Enter the AD-FREE zone

I've been here 20 months under this name, registered and lurked, but didn't post, pre-February crash, under another name.

The vomit picture didn't trigger a ban. End of non-issue.

Yes, I suppose making "goddamned jews" remarks shouldn't be banned. What's next? Excellent way to show off the site - let bigots, or in this case, play bigots, have their fun at the expense of whatever ethnic or religious group, or race, or whatever they feel like slagging off. Your site is different - it's mostly a club of people who basically all know each other well, so inside jokes and crap that most people would have the sense not to say in public can get by just fine there.

I know lots of people make jokes about having DL's. They don't get banned. Hmmm, perhaps a different context here, but Horses don't have that kind of frontal lobe development, so that's OK if you don't see that there might be more to the picture.

They're not jackboots, they're <i>jump</i>boots. Size 11-EEE Corcorans, in fact. Best paratroop boot ever made.

Losing old friends? If anybody personalizes things to that extent, they weren't real friends in the first place, and it's no loss to me.

Let's can the Newbies and Vets stuff, shall we? This ain't the #$% Army, and seniority and date of rank have no place. Cliques of longtime posters aren't worth dignifying with the name "Veterans," especially this weekend.

If you had a clue what I was trying to do, you wouldn't whinny publicly. Your previous "two week" ban was what? Five days? After we talked by pm. *hint* I've even reversed bans on the spot, after talking things over with people. How long Kitty's ban will actually go is mostly between her and I. But if people not involved keep running their mouths publicly, thinking that they're going to "force" something, then that's too bad, because it limits the leeway to privately work things out.

The only time I walk softly is when I'm hunting someting.

	28-05-2001 04:14									#59
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The newbie thing is only relevant in the sense that I would have thought a knowledge of how the forum has been moderated in the past would be essential to avoid needless controversies. Silly me. The Goddamned Jew comment was worth a warning at best - its hardly an anti-semitic campaign.

But I'm serious about the script kiddy comment. We don't want to create a forum terrorist now do we? I'm not talking about myself here obviously but others are skilled and crazed enough to cause a lot of trouble.

Hey! New smilies




And when you cut my ban, you should have given me 1600 posts back too. That's proportional

	28-05-2001 11:28									#60
	Inflate your Upload Space

Here we go again...