26-05-2001 01:57									#1
	AI production doesn't follow the same rules Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I noticed that my AI's would finish their wonder production in impossibly short perods of time. I activated the cheat mode so that I could check it. The number of shields produced was correct but the wonder would be finished when the production was only half complete. The AI didn't purchase them, I checked that out. It isn't sour grapes as I still win. I just don't get it. Either I'm reading it wrong or something is goofed. Hasbro is no help, of course. Hope you can help me. Tks.

	26-05-2001 02:07									#2
	Put an end to popups!

I'm not sure about the AI completing wonders when they are only half done, but their production boxes are often smaller.

	26-05-2001 02:53									#3
	The AI cheats! Shock Horror! Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It depends exactly how you use the cheat menu ...
If you 'Set Human Player' to the relevent AI and look in their cities - you will have only about half the number of shields that you need. However, if you conjure up a spy and peep - you will see that the AI's box is nearly full (but half the size of yours)
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	26-05-2001 04:41									#4
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No that's not what I'm saying. The production rate was 30 shields over 5 turns, making for a total of 150 shields. But, 300 shields were needed. Where did the extra 150 shields come from? I don't care about the size of the box.

	26-05-2001 07:27									#5
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Sometimes the AI cheats and gets extra shields in cities i think. This is certainly the case with money (even noticed how rich the AI gets early on...), and SS parts (size 2 cities building SS modules in a turn???). AI does get stuff cheaper as well as mentioned above. So it may be a combination or either AI cheating shields to finish the wonder or a smaller box.

	26-05-2001 16:13									#6
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On a different thread, East Street Trader expressed the idea that the AI always has Leo's workshop, and I provided some anecdotal evidence in agreement. But I wonder if one way to understand AI cheats is to understand that the AI always has most wonders, right from the beginning of the game and without expiration. This would include not only Leo's but also all the happiness wonders (in a recent game I played a large AI democracy was being kept happy at Deity with JSB; when I took JSB's city, not one other city went into revolt!); the SoL (the AI doesn't need odeo years), the Hoover Dam (the AI never has pollution), the Lighthouse (AI trereme's don't sink), Apollo (AI knows the whole map), and King Richard in every city (double production). Whaddaya think?

	26-05-2001 17:22									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: No that's not what I'm saying. The production rate was 30 shields over 5 turns, making for a total of 150 shields. But, 300 shields were needed. Where did the extra 150 shields come from? I don't care about the size of the box.

The smaller size of their box is why the AI only pays 150 shields. You need 300 shields, they don't.

The AI's production advantage at higher levels does not come from generating more shields from terrain or improvements. It comes from paying less for what they build. The size of the box determines how much they pay.

	26-05-2001 21:23									#8
	Remove this text

it only costs the AI a percentage of the shield cost to build anything, the percentage is based on the difficulty level youre playing on, ity's just one of many cheats the programmers have put in to give the AI a chance to compete with good players on higher difficulty levels, the ones that East has noticed are similar
another is that a AI Democracy with never be brought down no matter how many, or how long, cities are in revolt.
the is a big list of these cheats on Aployton somewhere, its might be worth you going to the GL. as the exact figures for this cheat ARE known

	27-05-2001 03:54									#9
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I did this as a test. Late in a recent game, I was at the point where I could have taken a medium size (12 - 14 pt) city controled by the AI. Instead, I fortified a howitzer, a mech. infantry & a spy within striking distance & watched (spied) for several turns. Each turn, even though it didn't have nearly enough shields, the AI would create a new unit (either rifleman or cavelry), each turn, I would destroy the unit (although the AI cavelry did attack my units once, leaving the city unprotected) - it did not buy these units, nor were there any other AI cities that could have produced these units.

I guess the theory might be the AI cities would conscript & train units unless you occupy the city the same year you destroy its last unit. Of course, human players don't have the same advantage !

	28-05-2001 12:59									#10
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The size of the shields box for the AI, is depending on the level.

In Deity, the part of the human civilization box that the AI have to fill about build anything, is less than the half than the human players' box.

You can see this size looking into their cities with a spy.

This is the way to make the game more uneasy for you !

	28-05-2001 13:24									#11
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Uncle Sparky , I have had a similar thing happen to me. I have often left an ai city alone when it was defenseless and checked its progress with a spy. I don't think the unit is conjoured out of thin air however. I believe that the ai can buy part of the sheilds for the unit instead of all of the sheilds. I believe this because I have sabatoged the probuction of the current unit many times and seen that next turn the ai has build maybe 40 sheilds towards the unit even though their production is say 15 or so. The reason u might think that the ai does not buy them is that I believe the ai buys units at a price way cheaper than we do maybe so little that u would not even notice it if you had an embassy.
Basically I think the ai gets an advantage in almost everything not just production and food. For instance I have had cities be bought by the ai when I had alot more money then them in my treasury and not to mention that the city was size 12. It may be that as the dificulty levels increase the amount of money anything costs the ai goes down just as sheild cost and food box size go down. But then this is just a rant of mine. By the way what part of Edmonton do you live in? I live by Harey Ainley

	28-05-2001 21:05									#12
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The way I see AI production is following:
The AI sum all shield production from all its cities. This give him some big 'national' pool of shields from where he can pick to build whatever unit/building he wants and produce it/them in the city he wants.
This explain why he seems to be able to build units every turn in any border/island city or even building in 0 shield production cities.
I remember having post this long time ago and someone asked me that it could be true, but with an exception: Wonders. The AI build Wonders the 'normal' - or the 'human' - way, I mean with the local shield production. The open question is: does the shield production of such a city still be added to the common pool? If yes, then this city prod is - some way - doubled.

About inherent AI wonders, I also think AI has some inherent wonders:
- Great wall (only the barb bonus: did you ever saw an AI unit lost to barbs?)
- Sun Zu (only the combat bonus: I have the feeling any AI unit winning a combat becomes vet)
- Eiffel tower (how many time did he sneak attack me, and what's his reput )
- Lighthouse (no coment...)
- SoL (...)

	28-05-2001 23:22									#13
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I've always had the impresssion that the AI accounts for shields differently than humans do, especially wrt wonders. For instance, if I have an AI competing for a wonder, than I build it and the AI abondens the wonder, it seems to be able to store the shields in a "secret bank account" and bring them out later.

	29-05-2001 03:30									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I too have noticed the shield use by AI civs. They have some number of shields, and a few in the building box, but on the next turn, when I look in the city with my spy, they have added sometimes a multiple of their available shields. This can happen even when it is the only city they have. For example, they have a size 3 city generating 6 shields. There are 10 in the box and they are building a knight for 40 shields. The very next turn, they have 15 more shields in the box.
You have also seen where the AI begins building a WOW. A few turns later you check through your intelligence (having an embassy to do that) and you see they are building the King Richard's Crusade in 5 cities. WHY? You or I wouldn't do that unless there were 4 more WOW's we thought we could soon build. But shortly they build the WOW and you don't see any message saying the Celts have abandoned their WOW in any of the several other cities!!!
Just another variation of AI cheats, or built in handicaps to give those poor devils a small chance against the Deity players.
he he he

	29-05-2001 19:43									#15
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We use caravans to augment Wonder production. Is it possible the AI does too? If they pay 25 shields for a 50 shield wonder-building bonus, it's not surprising that some of us get beat to some wonders,