17-05-2000 05:56									#1
	I'm looking for a good challenge against the AI Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

no that wasn't a joke

I just can't get into OCC. I love having lots of cities. And I do like fighting wars. Although I prefer modern wars. I know setting them to militant aggressive helps a little. Having 6 ghengis Khans. But many times they just wipe each other out.

Any other suggestions. I just wish there was a better way they could utilize units. What moron attacks a walled city with marines anyway. I want them to build 20 to 30 howies and 50 tanks (with infantry and air/naval support) and attack me with them. Is it that hard to program?

OK maybe I was joking about the title. But I'm just looking for something differant in a single player game.

	17-05-2000 06:01									#2
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the record for conquering a small map,deity,7 civs(no restart),raging hoardes is 425 BC.

try to conquer before AD.This is a challenge.

edited for SF's new target.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited May 17, 2000).]

	17-05-2000 06:18									#3
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try winning as only a despot govt...

no wonders challenge....

no conquering of cities ever....

etc... the list goes on and on and NO the ai will never coordinate attacks like that

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Every Wednesday night between 5pm and 9pm it is War4ever... Come pin your pike on the jackass lest you be made a fool and turned into the jackass yourself....... same icq #

	17-05-2000 08:45									#4
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You could edit the default units so that the AIs use them better, ie give everything min 2 moves and high enough attack to theoretically kill a walled defender by itself in the appropriate era.

Also, military aggressive is not the most difficult AI. Best is Expansionist/aggressive, which is the Romans.
[This message has been edited by Seeker (edited May 16, 2000).]

	17-05-2000 16:54									#6
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Yes... The expanionist/aggressive civs are the most annoying

	17-05-2000 17:44									#7
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If you really want a challenge against the AI, just play the WWII scenario that comes with MP Gold. Just select any neutral power and have fun. It will be challenging. You can watch the germans, russians and english make peace to gang up on you. They will have so many units to throw at you that it will almost appear that they are attacking with brains.

RAH

	17-05-2000 17:50									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Black Bart - I made a scenario with six expansionist civs, then gave each of them four extra settlers to help them start faster. I put myself at the pole, way out of trireme range. Several people beat it as a One City Challenge, but the AIs are a little tougher than usual. You can download it at http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/Polar.zip - play as the Chinese.

	17-05-2000 17:56									#9
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Black Bart, play the game just like me and you'll find the AI hard enough!!! ha ha!??!

have you tried designing a map so that you're surrounded by the AI civs, so that for you to expand you've got to get past 1 or more aggresive civs?!?! and if they start fighting, they'll do it on your land? that'll make it fun!!!!!

	17-05-2000 18:08									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

For the type of thing you are looking for I would try Rah's or Oldman's suggestion first, then any of the others you find appealing, or:

You could set a limit of say one to three cities max and try to keep them defended to the modern age. If at some point you feel like you can go on the offense more power to ya. Not really a OCC game but one where you can have some military strategy fun.

If you mess with the unit strengths as suggested it may be fun but it won't contribute to an experienced sense of what most likely will happen in a battle in a regular game. Like the feel of whether it is worth it to you under a given situation to attack a fortified vet pikeman in a river square city with say 2 knights or should you most likely have 4 or 5, or is that way overkill? So unless you are already satisfied with your sense of those things you might keep this in mind.
[This message has been edited by Crustacian (edited May 17, 2000).]

	17-05-2000 20:14									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yeah rah... the WWII scenario.

If you take the neutrals, you will lose a city or two before you even get a chance to move... and since you don't get many to start with, it can be very challanging

Play the Spanish in the scenario. You don't get murdered on the first turn, and you can have a lot of fun.

If you take the French, you lose a bunch of cities on the first turn... typical

	18-05-2000 01:55									#12
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Try the Turks

	18-05-2000 03:11									#13
	Put an end to popups!

Try to build ALL the wonders. The early ones are the hardest.
Have you ever stuck it out until the final loss? It's cute. Try mismanaging a game until the AI has a real advantage; then try to hold on.

	18-05-2000 06:30									#14
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Other Suggestions:
1. I agree that aggressive expansionist civs are the toughest. Brits, Vikings, Romans. They also tend to have enough science to stay competitive.
2. Try editing the AI valuation of the tech tree. I had a thread on this about a year ago, and several people seemed to like the idea. Making the militaristic AI value monarchy and monotheism more highly will make the early game much closer. You can probably think of other techs to have the AI go after later in the game. Having the AI get stealth or cruise missiles earlier would certainly liven up the game.
3. Somebody (I forget who) had the following suggestion for a tag-team type game: Start a deity/ raging hordes / seven civ game on a large map. Stick with your chosen civ until your power is supreme. Then switch to the lowest powered civ until their power is supreme. Then switch to the civ that is currenlty lowest powered. You obviously cant conquer the world this way, but continually playing as the underdog would be pretty interesting.

edit: spelling
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[This message has been edited by Adam Smith (edited May 18, 2000).]

	18-05-2000 07:12									#15
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Yes, SilverDragon, the turks would be harder than the spanish. You have obviously checked out the senario.
RAH

	22-05-2000 02:04									#16
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Whow... reading all these replys I just noticed i´ve got to play more often... For me, the greatest challenge is playing a deity/big map/7 civ/raging hordes game. My goal is to conquer the world (save one enemy city), build the spaceship and wait till 2002. Currently working on the 1000 percent barrier. Talking about challenges, how the heck can one manage to win a OCC in 1803?! Today, I managed to win my first OCC ever, i launched in 1981, playing King/small map/7 civ/ragHor.

	22-05-2000 14:32									#18
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Chainsaw - OCC is fairly straight forward - downloasd Paul's strategy guide get a good starting site (easy if you also download one of the comparison games or taek one of the OCC fortnightly challenge games) and you will very soon be off in the nineteenth century - I have yet to manage the eighteenth, but I have high hopes.

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"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	22-05-2000 17:38									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Download and play "Red Front." See scenario section and threads from the Scenario League forum for advice. Now that is a challenge.

Given your stated perchant for modern wars, I think you'll like it.
[This message has been edited by Sortub (edited May 22, 2000).]

	22-05-2000 17:50									#20
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LOL SilverDragon,
XIN, MING AND I played it as the three neutrals and actually beat the snot out of russia, germany and the english. The trick is just surviving till you can build your war machines. It is ridiculous that they all ally. Silly for a WWII scenario. Try the Spanish. At least the Mountains buy you time and the french act as a buffer for a few turns until they ally.

RAH

	22-05-2000 17:56									#21
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The most challenging SP games I've had involve a mix of AI types. If they're all aggressive, they end up fighting amongst themselves too much. For a good challenge, put a couple aggressive/expansionists on the same continent as you. But on another large continent, put a rational/expansionist AI. They'll fill the continent and achieve Democracy quickly while you're still fighting off the Mongols.