26-05-2001 07:25									#1
	Who wants a restart? If so, what options? And where to host? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

OK, let me start this by saying that as of now I am a member in good standing with Apolyton Co.; I bring to Apolyton a Planet
with T-Warp capability, as well as two other planets that are
progressing nicely, 30million colonists, about a million credits,
and 12k fighters.

I also hereby propose that, rather than continue to drag this
game out, we ask to re-bang the universe, either at Firaxis (the
folks who started this, and were great at keeping it going) or
at some other location (either a player from this board or the Stardock were the 2 ideas I saw mentioned).

Given the number of players that I see on there now, I would
assume that we have had around 40-50 unique, serious
players, as well as a number of dupes and a number of folks
that just weren't that interested.

Given that number of players for a rebang, here is what I think
of for starting options:

Number of sectors: 1000-2000
Max Traders per Corp: 3
Photons: ?No idea on this one?
Port regen: 20%
Turns per day: 300-500
Helpers allowed: ??? Opinions? I am tempted to say yes.

Also, a couple of restrictions, either honor-bound or server-
bound, such as: 1) No dupes. This is the biggest problem
that I see us having; 2) Neither myself nor Marko Polo nor
(anyone else that considers themselves quite experienced)
can corp (my idea); 3) some form of guarantee on corps, so
that players that don't know each other can corp and become
major players in the game.

My goal (what I would envision) is a couple of strong players
fending for themselves, as well as groups of 2-3 "newbies"
all fighting it out for the title.

I've got to admit that, after the port regen and the turns
increased on Firaxis, the game is pretty nice as is.

Ideas? Love it? Hate it? Let the discussion begin!!!

	26-05-2001 09:01									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I am definitely for a rebang, after having a talk with Marko and you, I realized that there was no hope in anyone beating you guys in this game.

We need to setup a proper voting option for each aspect, but I'll try to be as thorough as I can.

I too think there are probably 30-40 players.

Number of Sectors: 5000-8000 (anything in between is also fine)
Max traders per Corp: Not more than 3
Photons: YES!
Port Regen: 18-24%
Turns per day: 600 in 5000 sectors and 800 in 8000 sectors.
Time Limit: None, or 4 hours per player.. (pleeeeease? )
Helpers: Sure, whatever. There is no way to stop it or check anyway.
Max Planets: Approx. 2000 (for 8000 sectors)
Max Ports: Approx. 1500 (for 8000 sectors)
Ferrengi: Not so aggressive, please let them board me once in a while!
Stardock: Visible
Max Players: less than 100
Terra Colonist Regen rate: 3-4 mil a day.


Restrictions:
1) Apolyton rules apply.
2) Only People with Apolyton nicks can join. (Will DEFINITELY cut down on Dupes). Email + IP monitoring must also take place. Each player must post in a thread that they want to play. Else they cannot.
3) I disagree with Burbel. Let the experienced players also team up. I dont want you guys getting an ego and giving everyone else a head start! .. No restrictions to teaming up. Its the players decision. Just because you are good at playing doesn't mean you shouldn't join a corp!
4) I want a large Universe because it will give more place to hide, more trade ports and more to explore. This will mean a long difficult and complex game. These type of games normally end in deadlock with a couple of really powerful corps that dominate all the other lesser corps. It will easily last a year...


There should be a 1 week registration period, where people can join up. But 15 days after the game gets going, no more players will be allowed. What do you guys think?

As far as hosting it, I'm fine with firaxis.com hosting it. Dan has been extremely nice and helpful and I really appreciate all that he has done for no reward. But this new game will mean even more work for him.. I dont want to burden him, if he doesn't mind hosting it still, it would be great, but I understand if he doesn't want to take up the added hassle.

We could still host it on stardock, or each player shelling out some money. (with 30 players, $2 each will be $60!!) to get us a server ourselves.. then we can host multiple games simultaneously with different settings.. But thats up to you guys.


(has anyone actually asked thestardock.com if they would host our game for us.. or is this just speculation? Are we sure its for free?)

Last edited by King Thor on 26-05-2001 at 09:17

	26-05-2001 09:25									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I see your point for a large universe, but, assuming
5000 sectors and 50 players, that's 100 sectors
per player. With a 4 turn per warp ship, I could take
400 turns and not even leave my own "space", let
alone encounter another trader.

I also agree with not having the limit on anyone
corping with anyone else; I am just trying to think of
ways to get everyone to keep the game competitive.

And, no, I have never contacted anyone at the StarDock;
I was just thinking out loud on that one.

	26-05-2001 10:44									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

5000 sectors is way too big. I think a smaller one would do. Maybe we first have a pre-registration period to see how many players we have before deciding on the size.

I also agree that we need some kind of binding rule for a corp. Once a players joins a corp that person is in for the duration of the game.

	26-05-2001 10:51									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

After Burbel blew up my Havoc , I took a look at the TW community online. What I found was many sysops run games with early limits: no ships with better than 1:1 attack available for a certain number of days, or limits on the numbers of fighters you can buy, or some games no attacks whatsoever in the first week. Most also have set sign up periods(7-14 days). After this initial period anything goes.

	26-05-2001 13:01									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well, I think that the no agression part in the beginning is
nice; also, I think that 5k sectors is a bit much for the #
of players that we'll probably have. As for the must stay
in a corp till the end, I would rather see something like if
you leave a corp all corp assets go to the remaining
members or something like that; if someone wants to move
on, then they should be able to; they just shouldn't be
able to backstab.

	26-05-2001 18:35									#7
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

There's no other way to prevent a backstab otherwise, esp. with the very popular "split -corp" type play. A player can join up with a corp, leak the info to his buddies, have them decimate this corp and steal it's stuff, then leave.

If players can't leave, there's no such worries.

	26-05-2001 18:46									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hi all!

I too concur with a rebang. As far as the rules go - I will side with the majority

Oh, and UR and Shadow, I will be leaving Fayetteville, NC for a road trip to San Francisco, CA. I will most likely leave tomorrow (Sunday) and I will not return until 14 June. Then on 17 June, I have to travel up to Ohio to visit my parents. I won't return from there until 30 June. THEN I have to pack-up my household furnishings for my move to San Francisco...so I don't know when I will be able to actively get back into the game I will perform my moves today (if the game is up ) and then I will email you both my password for access to my Battleship.

- Wittlich (aka Lord Wittlich)

	26-05-2001 21:46									#9
	Tired of ads?

burbel:

yes, 5000 sectors among 50 players is about 100 sectors to a player.. but you are calculating wrong.

you would have 600-800 turns, and as anyone knows, you should always explore with a fast ship and use Holo Scanners when there are multiple sectors to be explored.

Therefore, the number of sectors you can cover is more like, 300 in a day.. ie, the playing area of 3 players each day. A nice big universe will ensure lots of hiding areas and long game.

I think no corp. backstabbing is a bad idea, part of the game is to corp up with people you trust, and to identify those people.

For instance, in the last game, Shadow Corp, thought I was a snitch, had there been no backstabbing, and they would have completely trust me, I wouldn't have gotten kicked out and formed my own corp. So you see, this uncertainty is part of the game. We really shouldn't remove it.

Swissy: You wiped out my base, blew up my cargo and planet BEFORE burbel blew your havoc! Stop Complaining!


I see most of you think 5000 sectors is a lot. What size would you guys rather have it at? 3000?

I still say we go for 5000 fellas. It'll be fun, exploring the immensity of space, it will lead to a long and complex game, with lots of hiding places, you wont need a 'no aggression pact' everyone will just be able to hide so easily.

	26-05-2001 21:52									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

Well, I think that the idea of *500* sectors is a good one.
Lots of interaction, and the ability to find every other trader
in a single day!

I guess 3000 sectors would be OK, but I would still like to
see less sectors total.

	26-05-2001 22:18									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

.. Seriously Burbel.. I know why you want a small universe.. so that you can hunt others down easy.. that is exactly why I want a BIG universe.. so its hard to hunt people down, it will take strategy, time and planning to find any base. The Grimmy trader will become more useful, you'll start paying attention to more details so that you can home in on your opponents base.. instead of just flying around until you hit something.. (which works now, but wont work in a large universe).

	26-05-2001 22:34									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

500 sectors? that sounds awful. I'm for 5000 sectors at least. The points thor makes about strategy not withstanding, having port pairs that max out at 50% and 800 is not my idea of a fun game. We need a much larger universe to accomodate the number of players in this game, and 5000 sectors sounds about right.

	26-05-2001 23:21									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I like having NO photons. If they were in the game you wouldn't see any evil players, unless the steal ratios were cranked way down. As it is I am barely making more than I did when I was good. With photons there is no reason why everybody wouldn't want their commission and an ISS.

	26-05-2001 23:33									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader I like having NO photons. If they were in the game you wouldn't see any evil players, unless the steal ratios were cranked way down. As it is I am barely making more than I did when I was good. With photons there is no reason why everybody wouldn't want their commission and an ISS.

Thats another reason why you need a large universe! It will be significantly harder to find your cloaked ship. If we shrink the size of the universe we will have to crank down other features of the game. To experience the game at its full potential we need a large universe.

	27-05-2001 00:29									#15
	Tired of ads?

Well I would like to see 5000 sectors as well.

	27-05-2001 01:32									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

800 turns translates into about an hour of gameplay. I don't think that a lot of us have that kind of time to throw around (unless TW is their life, which I can see in some players)...

	27-05-2001 02:10									#17
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Shadowstrike 800 turns translates into about an hour of gameplay. I don't think that a lot of us have that kind of time to throw around (unless TW is their life, which I can see in some players)...

You know you dont HAVE to play each and every turn every day.. Just like people dont play everyday right now. I work 40 hours a week, am attending two courses at university, do my house chores, cook my own food, and yet I dont have a problem with playing 800 turns.

Besides that MOST Trade Wars games have around 800 turns.. not because there are people who make Trade Wars their life, but because most people agree that its a decent amount of turns.. thats all.

If 800 turns is a lot, we could always play with 600 turns. Like I said.. whatever is the majority vote.

Vote count so far:
<5000 sectors : burbel, Urban Ranger, Shadowstrike?? = 3
5000+ sectors: King Thor, Garth Vader, Predilect = 3

No vote/Dont care: Wittlich, Swissy.

Obviously a 5000 sector universe will need 600 or so turns.

	27-05-2001 03:39									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

I'd vote for 5000 sector universum with photons enabled. I'd like to have 800 turns, it really isn't too much IMO. With ISS and 4 turns per warp and using a helper those turns vanish very quickly anyway.

The colonist regen should be MUCH larger than now; I think everybody agrees with this one.

	27-05-2001 08:04									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I don't think you are calculating it right, KT.

Due to the layout of the universe you just don't get from point A to point B in a straight line. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, so it's hard to tell how many sectors one can cover. Also, the more exploration you have done the harder it is to get to the rest. As for a holo scanner, it costs money, so people won't have it for the first day or two.


Marko Polo,

Can't tell how many people will use helpers so you can't just assume that they do. Also since there IS a time limit having 800 turns with just 2 hours seems to be meaningless. I think the more turns there will be the bigger the difference will be between a) experienced players and newbies and b) those who use helpers and those who don't. My trial period of SWATH has expired and it is too expensive to register (USD26). There's always J-****, unfortunately it doesn't do auto haggling, as trading is the part the eats up the most time (real time, not necessary turns). Also it still has quite a number of bugs, which is to be expected.It seems that helpers are of greater use to evil players with such scripts as SST and SSM. So therefore we must make provisions for people who won't be using helpers.

Also the more sectors there are the lower the port regen rate will have to be. There's no point of cranking it up if every player can stake out his own territory. If you give 500 sectors to each player there's no point for the regen rate to be higher than 5%, maybe even lower.

Last edited by Urban Ranger on 27-05-2001 at 08:09

	27-05-2001 08:31									#20
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'd rather have something a bit lower then 5000 sectors.... 3 or 4 thousand should do.