26-05-2001 15:13									#1
	Goody-huts replaced with ulcer-huts? Get a bigger avatar today!

Perhaps goody-huts in Civ-3 should be replaced with "ulcer-huts" instead, which initially only have two or more babarians in them. Only after if you unleash and attack them all, you get a compensating reward. Ulcer-huts should come in two differently coloured variations:

A: Light-brown ulcer-huts (contains two half-cruel barbarians - with reduced attack-strength). If unleashed and killed, you are compensated either with a lumpsum of money, or a fastmoving scout-unit (like the horsemen).

B: Dark-brown ulcer-huts (contains 3-4 very cruel barbarians - with full attack-strength). If unleashed and killed, you are compensated with, either...

- A free tech (from ancient era, only though).
- A fastmoving attack-potent unit.
- A somewhat bigger lumpsum of money.

No Civ-3 settlers though - that unit is too powerful to be given for free. Now, some perhaps argue that there is not enough incentive to open them. Well, thats the whole point: they are not called ulcer-huts for nothing. Above bonuses only acts as after-action compensations, for you trouble cleansing your empire from these barbaric scumbags.

Last edited by Ralf on 26-05-2001 at 15:29

	26-05-2001 19:14									#2
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Interesting idea, interesting name. I like it. I hate the usual goody huts. Too easy to get too much stuff -- units, techs, cities, etc. I would prefer that they all be converted to barbarian settlements. That makes sense. There were barbarians living all over. If you want to take over their land, you'll have to kill them. It was just too easy before (Civ2). And I hated it when the computer found advanced tribes a continent away from the rest of its cities, especially when they were too close to my civ or in an area I wanted to expand into.

	26-05-2001 19:46									#3
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quote: Originally posted by El hidalgo And I hated it when the computer found advanced tribes a continent away from the rest of its cities, especially when they were too close to my civ or in an area I wanted to expand into.

Oh, I forgot about those. But you are right - No "advanced tribes" either. They just mess up your expansion-plans - beside a free city is way too beneficial, anyway. About the graphics: I called them "huts" here, but of course they should look like tiny villages with a barbarian-unique look.

	27-05-2001 00:49									#4
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i suppose the goody huts ARE too good sometimes, but it really does promote exploration.

if you haven't noticed, the best prizes (settlers / techs) were mostly given out early in the game.

i also believe that the new resource structure will promote exploration a lot more than huts ever could, and therefore agree with you, except that i believe they all should be the same color, just to piss people off

the concept of sending 5 legions to get a hut still scares me.

	27-05-2001 04:52									#5
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX the concept of sending 5 legions to get a hut still scares me.

The point is that one perhaps want to found cities and improve terrain-tiles around them as much as possible, at first. At least then it comes the stronger ulcer-huts. On wouldnt like to "awaken the sleeping bear" so to speak - at least not unless properly prepared.

On the other hand; these barbarian ulcer-huts get stronger units over time too, if left alone. Not above knights however. Also; once you improved one too many of the surrounding hut-tiles, these scumbags suddenly gets very provoked by the fact that everything starting to get so damn organized around them. They leave the hut, either divided (for terrain pillage) or forged to an army (for unit-killings, or even city-conquerings).

Nice blokes!

	27-05-2001 05:04									#6
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Maybe you could have barbariab huts that have barb. units come out of them every now and then. if unleashed you get several barbs attacking you. This way if you want to take over their land you cant just leave them alone.

	27-05-2001 11:24									#7
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That's a great idea. Where do barbarians come from in CivII anyway? They just randomly materialize from thin air?

	28-05-2001 07:11									#8
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I like the idea, but how about if you don't take care of these huts after a while a barbarian unit will come out of it and start pillaging or attacking your civ. Therefore you are forced to cleanse the land of them - subjugating them. It will slow down expansion, but if you defeat them, then you get either a free worker unit, a free powerful military unit, some cash, some tech, or a combo of these, depending on how strong the barbs you defeated were. Or perhaps if you get your culture rating high enough, they will voluntarily join you for X amount of cash (you get a military unit or worker or something).

I think this is better because in reality when a civ started out, it had to subjugate its neighbours. There was rarely unoccupied land you could just settle unopposed. These "ulcer" huts will mimic those minor native tribes inhabiting the land. This will also deter ICS players.

	28-05-2001 09:16									#9
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What can I say? This is so much better than my original idea (which I conceived of soon after I bought Civ) of completely eliminating goody huts, which I hate hate hate with a passion . It also clears up that eternal mystery of Civ: mommy, where do barbarians come from? (Out of thin air, my son). I really hope Firaxis does something like this. Seems like it wouldn't be too hard. In the beginning it might even foster cooperation among the civs -- let us ally against the evil barbarians.

quote: Originally posted by Captain I like the idea, but how about if you don't take care of these huts after a while a barbarian unit will come out of it and start pillaging or attacking your civ. Therefore you are forced to cleanse the land of them - subjugating them. It will slow down expansion, but if you defeat them, then you get either a free worker unit, a free powerful military unit, some cash, some tech, or a combo of these, depending on how strong the barbs you defeated were. Or perhaps if you get your culture rating high enough, they will voluntarily join you for X amount of cash (you get a military unit or worker or something). I think this is better because in reality when a civ started out, it had to subjugate its neighbours. There was rarely unoccupied land you could just settle unopposed. These "ulcer" huts will mimic those minor native tribes inhabiting the land. This will also deter ICS players.

	28-05-2001 09:34									#10
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Has anyone played Master of Magic?

The proposed quasi-cities/goody huts sound like the neutral towns from MoM. They were sort of like barbarian controlled cities from Civ, except that they were already there when the game started (and were brown). You could capture them (useful because they sometimes contained races which allowed you to build different units), but you had to kill off the units defending it, which were sometimes quite numerous. They would also intermittantly send out groups of units to attack your cities, but they weren't organized to work together like the cities of another enemy wizard (civ).

I suppose this could be what a minor civ is?

	28-05-2001 13:20									#11
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Well there was hut-like structures on the last screens on Firaxis site, didnt see any reply to my earlier post about this however. My guess they represent the "Goody-huts", Barbarian towns or maybe the much debated "Minor Civs"...

	28-05-2001 21:13									#12
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There will be Barbarian Towns aikin to the Neutral Towns of MoM in Civ3, last I heard...

	29-05-2001 05:54									#13
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Are these barbarian towns the same as the goody huts or a totally new feature altogether?

If they are spearate, I'd like to suggest to Firaxis that goody-hut benefits be reduced.
Or that goody huts should be placed only near barb towns, so you have to fight the barbs to get the goodies.

	29-05-2001 07:44									#14
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i love it. the only problem is that probably no one is listening and if they were it would be too late... if there are goody huts on the screenshots, they will probably stay goody huts, the only input from us they might take would be to decrease the hut value, which is not very useful in my opinion


Now, back on fantasy track that they will actually listen to me -
The best idea is to have barbarian villages with large rewards for killing all the barbarians, then to have them come at you later randomly later if you dont deal with them initially, and instead develop around them.

I dont know what is up with minor civs, but i definetly think that if there are no barbarian villages, then there should be many minor civs that you must defeat, and if you do, they will reveal an advance, or give you a city or a settler - a good reward.

anyway, see what you think

	29-05-2001 08:40									#15
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I disagree.

First of all, what is the logic of having all these minor tribes violent and hostile? I distinctly recall barbarian raids were the exception instead of the norm during European Colonisation period. Heck, when the Puritans came to North America they found friendly natives.

If you feel the goodie huts are giving too big an advantage to the human players, place them further apart, or make their reaction to you directly related to your civilisation level.

	29-05-2001 10:14									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I disagree. First of all, what is the logic of having all these minor tribes violent and hostile? I distinctly recall barbarian raids were the exception instead of the norm during European Colonisation period. Heck, when the Puritans came to North America they found friendly natives. If you feel the goodie huts are giving too big an advantage to the human players, place them further apart, or make their reaction to you directly related to your civilisation level.

Well, the barbarians/minor tribes can be friendly, but if they're in your way you will have to destroy them. Unless you want to end up as a minor civ yourself. Friendly natives didn't last long in America. (For that matter, neither did the hostile ones.) Actually, it would be interesting to have friendly barbarians. You can grow you civ around them, but one day you will have to make the sad choice to kill them. Or maybe they would grow hostile to you as you became more powerful and as you kept kicking their units out of your city borders where their wandering disrupts your production.

I do feel goody huts give too big an advantage. I'd turn them off altogether if I could, though if this ulcer hut/minor tribe idea were implemented I'd keep that on.

	29-05-2001 19:42									#17
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hidalgo's right - if you want to become powerful, you must destroy all minor civs in your way



even though in my earlier games i would save every time i saw a hut and load the game if i didn't get a settler or advanced tribe (I was a fan of ICS) I realize this is cheap and want to play the game fair now.

	29-05-2001 20:23									#18
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I like the idea that if you want to get the "goodie" for the hut you first have to attack and kill the barbarians that appear from it. It could be set up so that if all the barbarians are not killed during your (or whoever relaeases them) turn, then no one can gain the goodie by killing them, now they are just regular barbarians. I also like the new resource system. I really think it will help aid in exploration and the race to get land. In the prior CIV's it didn't matter a whole lot if you did not have trade. This should make it much more important.

	29-05-2001 22:15									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Pilfur That's a great idea. Where do barbarians come from in CivII anyway?

You see, Pilfur, when a mommy barbarian and a daddy barbarian REALLY love each other...

	29-05-2001 22:22									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Frugal_Gourmet You see, Pilfur, when a mommy barbarian and a daddy barbarian REALLY love each other...

LOL, This must've been in the uncensored Civ2 movies

	30-05-2001 01:20									#21
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LOL

	30-05-2001 02:49									#22
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I think SMAC had it right when it came to 'goody huts'--relatively weak units, cash, tech (same as Civ), but never a settlement or settler-type unit. You could also get the 'communications frequency' of another faction, which could work for Civ3 (think of it as your unit stumbling upon a Marco Polo-type). Pods could also generate 'special' squares on the spot (I think--or was it just serendipity all those times?), which would be cool in Civ3 and also make sense (why wouldn't a minor tribe squat on above-average territory?).

	30-05-2001 07:20									#23
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quote: [SIZE=1[/SIZE]I think SMAC had it right when it came to 'goody huts'--relatively weak units, cash, tech (same as Civ), but never a settlement or settler-type unit. You could also get the 'communications frequency' of another faction, which could work for Civ3 (think of it as your unit stumbling upon a Marco Polo-type). Pods could also generate 'special' squares on the spot (I think--or was it just serendipity all those times?), which would be cool in Civ3 and also make sense (why wouldn't a minor tribe squat on above-average territory?).

If you remember correctly, the tech was only good until the 3rd level of discovery and then no more new tech. You would sometime gain a old car and once in awhile you gain money (energy) but most of the time you got the bugs and lots of them.

I like the goody huts as they are. I hope they do not change them for the most part. The only change I would not mind is "maybe" the new city hut.
However with the new resource system you may very well need that new city to control the resources.

	31-05-2001 03:37									#24
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quote: If you remember correctly, the tech was only good until the 3rd level of discovery and then no more new tech. You would sometime gain a old car and once in awhile you gain money (energy) but most of the time you got the bugs and lots of them.

Absolutely! Just as in Civ2, where Invention puts an end to the free tech gravy-train, there is a built-in stop in SMAC--as it should be. Techs should be worked for, not gifted through the popping of some cyber-pinata. I even like the fact that pods seem to get more worm-infested as time goes on--it gives the player yet another reason to clear them up earlier rather than later.

	31-05-2001 08:58									#25
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There should be the option of bribing the barb huts or "assimilating" them somehow. thus, if you stumble across non-hostile barbs, then you just pay X gold to assimilate them. It costs less gold if your culture rating is higher. This way, you don't have to destroy them, but you can if you want.
But there should be very hostile barb towns that you must destroy or they get more virulent and powerful over time and start pillaging your land. Those ones you must destroy and you get rewards for those.

No settlers, no instant cities, no techs. But maybe a few units, some gold, some resource they're sitting on, maybe an instant colony (that's realistic and a good reward for conquest), and that commlink frequency idea from SMAC is really good too!