27-05-2001 02:47									#1
	Samson, Solo, here's your record setting start. Suffering from ads?

I just got a start that is well beyond amazing! Two starting techs only, but its worth it. You start on a 2 whale 2 gold site, there is an offshore 2 gold 2 wine STC site, and there are unimaginable amounts of gold and wine that you can build little size 1 trade giants on. I had 2 turn discoveries at the beginning. I can't zip the game right now for technical reasons, so I will send the save via email to the first person to reply, and then they can attach.

	27-05-2001 13:45									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Here is FireDragon's 4000AD save game ...

Attachment: alan.zip
This has been downloaded 38 time(s).

	27-05-2001 20:06									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yes, it is an unbelievable start. So unbelievable I had to see it for myself.

There are only 8 gold on the entire map, and all are within walking distance
(or a short boat ride) of those two little settlers.
Plus, wonder of wonders!, the Purples are the nearest civ.

Edited map? Or another fortuitous bug?

	28-05-2001 05:43									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Not a bug that I know of, but the thing that amazed me was where I was started. I try about a hundred starts before I get one that is right in the middle of the special pattern. The number of golds doesnt surprise me, I always get lots of mountains on small/normal maps, but usually they just miss the special pattern .. What's really nice is that there are so many spots for little size one gold cities, or slightly larger wine cities. I think that you could land on AC at 600 or earlier with this. The souix, who are probably going to be the key civ, also have a good start.

	28-05-2001 11:58									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

"one sized gold cities, build on them, they like WLTKDs.

RAH

	28-05-2001 23:00									#6
	Support Apolyton

The trouble is that the cities don't grow because they are surrounded by mountains, hills, and forests. AC in 1456. . I am ashamed.

	30-05-2001 19:16									#7
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Dragon,

The start has some problems - the hill city square will make it hard to work that gold and grow; only 2 starting techs means you probably won't get the lowest cost for research; if you build on/near the other gold, it slows initial expansion. Still ... that off-shore site is quite inviting. I may give this one a try for a fuller test of the STC idea. Thanks for sharing it.

samson

	31-05-2001 22:47									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yea, expansion was nearly impossible. The hill didn't seem that bad, it was the lack of two or more food squares near the golds. The golds really did help discovery. I am amazed at the river up in the north pole.

BTW, I just saw the perfect start, but the ai had it, not me. Offshore STC if wanted, with four golds and lots of grassland/river, 3 gold one whale SSC, which was where the ai started, and eight other golds. Also, the purple civ was only a little bit away. I decided to see how well the ai did, so i set no human player. Then, to my amazement, the AI BUILT A CITY IN BOTH FOUR SPECIAL SITES. But that was just the start. THEY ALSO PUT THE COLOSSUS IN THE SSC! I looked to see the ssc's beaker count...

The AI was using non roaded non sheild grasslands instead of the gold. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	01-06-2001 02:07									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Fire Dragon,

Thanks for making this start available. I have started countless random map games and have not seen anything even close to what you describe! My own best candidates for early landing games have already been used in my 1056 and 776 games. Nothing better since. I will give your start a try. Thanks again!

	01-06-2001 02:52									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I been watching this for abit with interest.Fairly educational.I have a suggestion.

1st off.....Would it be acceptable to use the real world map?
I think so.Everyone should have it so no probs trying a comparison.
Granted-you know the layout and that may be bad

The setup:same as Matthew's cept Americans instead of Sioux
large real world map-trade bonus will more than make up extra beakers needed
deity..blah blah
"pick civs"

Play as Americans.
select Rome(important) and whatever else cept Sioux and Aztecs.North America all to yourself..
GO!


You will be trading mostly with the city of Rome.It is almost always a repeat commodity city on the real world map.IIRC it is 3 galleons away with magellans.

I landed in 675 AD without going at it like a scientist or mathmetician.I had some trouble with tech choices as well.20-30 cities in total by the end doing almost nothing but caravans all game.Ship chaining to Rome makes 1 turn easy.You can have it up and running fairly early.

I did do some caravan rehoming,but I think a "scientist" player could manage without it and land very early.....Leo's is a must.I waitied until Magnet before massive trading.Internal before that.But I think The Lighthouse could be used to get foreign trade even earlier with an extra move for caravels also.

	01-06-2001 04:07									#11
	Remove this text

Well, if the real world map is acceptable,
then replaying on a random map would be okay, too?
Which would make Solo's 776 map available to him again.
But then you can just keep at it, correcting your mistakes and shaving off turns each time.
Nothing wrong in that I suppose.
But it doesn't have quite the cachet of a first attempt.

Still, I may try what you suggest.
A very different style of play for me, so I'll probably learn a lot.

	01-06-2001 05:13									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The funnest civ on world map is the greeks. They get a cool SSC from the start, and they are connected to everywhere. They are fun to ICS with. Where does the SSC go for the americans?