28-05-2001 14:10									#1
	Giving Surrendered factions all techs Support Apolyton

Will they trade the techs with other factions? Has anybody experienced this?

	28-05-2001 14:42									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

If possible, they will.

	28-05-2001 14:46									#3
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So one should only give them all techs when the game is already won, i.e. enemies are insignificant or transcendence can be quickly achieved.

	28-05-2001 14:52									#4
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Yep, best idea. I remember once giving my pet Roze Advanced Spaceflight, and next turn the Drones (with whom I was at war) began churning out Shard troops when previously they'd only had Missile Launchers!
I learnt my lesson the hard way...
Also, watch out for people with the PD! They really annoy me!

	28-05-2001 18:45									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

unless it doesn't matter (= all your enemies is also your submissives enemies, that way the won't trade AND all your submissives are givin your tech)

	28-05-2001 20:55									#6
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Your submissives will not trade tech with your enemies if they your submissives are also in vendetta with your enemies.

Here are the steps I take after submission:

1. Call off your vendetta on my friend, or I will otherwise cancel our pact.
2. A joint attack on my enemy, or I will otherwise cancel our pact.
3. I have urgent need of energey credits, you need but name your price.
4. Sell all techs to the submissive. This will give them a huge negative balance for energy credits, which will disappear at the end of the turn.
5. Steps 1 to 4 are all in the same year as the surrender. I revisit the faction to demand energy credits as soon as they accumulate any and to demand their new tech. If you follow #4 above, then their next breakthrough will be something you don't have.

	28-05-2001 21:44									#7
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Except that letting the AI go into negative credits is considered a cheat.

	29-05-2001 01:14									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

D-dad, I also proceed pretty much as you do, however, I say "My goodwill and friendship." I also give my tech to the submissive, rather than sell it. The submissive has no money, for God's sake. The fact that the game has a bug doesn't mean that we should exploit it.

The one caveat to this is if you do not have the Datalinks. Giving tech away effectively gives the tech to the faction that has the Links.

Finally, I also give/sell tech to pact brothers generally, not just submissives. This keeps their mood in the "blue." As well, they cooperate in research. The downside is, of course, that if they reseach a tech with an SP, the ordinary pact bro will not trade it to you. This can create a problem.

Ned

	29-05-2001 02:09									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

step 4. Appears to me, that an indebted factions sells off the remaining base facilities first, inclding the HQ ? If still in the negative, the slate will be ceaned.

	29-05-2001 06:11									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Flo, I think that's the bug. The slate is wiped clean with the AI, or you for that matter if you have the negative balance, without having to sell one thing. In a recent game, Yang asked me to "Donate" $2500 for the sake of keeping his friendship. When I did, I was -$2000. I expected the worse. But the next turn, I was again at a positive balance, no facilities had to be sold, and Yang has his $2500. Ned

	29-05-2001 22:39									#11
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National Debt, payed of with government bonds. We can say that, if we don't want to admit it's a bug..

well that's what it is.. national debt