29-05-2001 14:27									#1
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Hi Guys,

There has been a lot of messages on the forum lately about how complex the combat system should be. How about a compromise? Why doesn't Firaxis make advanced combat an Option in the Start-up screen. That way, if you wnat to replicate all the contingencies of war you can, but if you just want a simple slug-fest, you can simply choose note to switch on the advanced option. Additionally, when you choose the Advanced option, a box should also show all the possible advanced features you can use, which you can individually switch on or off!!
Some advanced features could include:
Simultaneous Unit combat (where each unit in an army attacks a unit in the enemy army simultaneously).
War Weariness and Casualty effects on morale and happiness.
Advanced movement and terrain effects.
Population restrictions on unit numbers.
Supply lines and unit range.
Combat effects on landscape and tile improvements.
Anyway, just a couple of suggestions. Would like to know what people think!

The_Aussie_Lurker

	29-05-2001 18:02									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm probably in the minority, but I prefer a simplified combat model with ranged attack, mobility, armor and firepower being the only factors. Dealing with that combination in armies is tricky and haven't thought about it much. I prefer a simple model because Civ really is an abstract game, and getting too micro in nature would take away from the fun, IMO. Thinking ot historical references, how much did Roosevelt or Churchill care about the details of their armies? Leaders of empires should have to deal with the larger issues, not tactical problems. Supply is a strategic issue, but one I'd rather kept out of Civ, simply because I feel it would be too cumbersome and wouldn't add much fun for the added realism.

	29-05-2001 19:18									#3
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I'm with serapis, but I do think that when an army attacks an army, both complete sides of an army should be involved. How many times do you see two armies close to each other in real life, and they both send out one infantry division after another to battle one infantry division after another from the other side! It just doesn't make sense. When armies battle (note: I'm only speaking of the so-called 'armies' - not just two units who happen to be on the same square) like in ctp, all the units should fight each other at the same time. As for the other options mentioned by aussie, they too might be cool, and should be included as options as he suggests. However, it seems these options would be quite difficult to implement, and the feature of armies battling each other is a priority.

	29-05-2001 19:29									#4
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What is with the option mania that is spreading through the forum??

If you want to put every major feature on the game as an option, what would you end up with? A game that has no consistent, standard, features.

There are some things that are great to put in as options, such as map-wrapping or not. Or elite units or not. But something that is so integral and central to the game as combat system should not be installed in the game as mere option, to be changed on the whim by the player.

	30-05-2001 01:40									#5
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Civ2 has an option for simplified combat(though I never used it). I could see being able to turn off certain features of the combat engine, ie supply lines, combat effects on landscape and improments(execption nukes), and the like.

But, the rest of the engine is, like MRFUN, is too integral to the game inorder to make it an option. Just make only the deepest stuff optional. Make the rest standard.

	30-05-2001 04:09									#6
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Hi Again,
I get the feeling that I've been misunderstood again! I agree with CivPatriot that the game should have core rules covering things like combat and diplomacy, and that these rules would be simple. Like the idea for diplomacy put forward by Firaxis, I think players should have the option to toggle on some Advanced combat elements like those I've mentioned above.
I would also like to note that when I talk about supply lines, I'm talking about only a very abstract concept, not the minutiae of supplying armies' needs. My supply line idea is just to have a tile improvement, called a "Supply Depot" which can be built by combat units and which acts in some ways like a reverse colony. i.e.: When connected by a road/rail to a friendly city, you can extend the range of your armies further into enemy territory. These structures would add an interesting element to the game, as they would be vulnerable to attack by the enemy and could force a halt to your entire campaign (even a cease-fire). Anyway, just thought I should explain myself a bit better, for the record.

Yours,

The_Aussie_Lurker

	30-05-2001 07:43									#7
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I like the way CTP games handle combat. One, you turn on or off the battle window.
Two, the units involve in the fighting take in consideration range attack, flanking attack and the strengths of the unit involved. The stronger armies win with some loosed.