18-05-2000 00:14									#1
	New speed conquest record....425bc Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

FINALLY

Small random map
Deity
Raging Hordes
7 civ
Don't restart eliminated civ

Boy that was hard

	18-05-2000 00:18									#2
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Congrats, I know you have been working hard on it.

Just two questions.
How many tries did you do?
How long did it take to play this one?

RAH
Thinking about giving the ferrets a try at this one.

	18-05-2000 00:24									#3
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Hard question...about 2 months,every day 2-3 games.
This one took little more than hour. I didn't bother with micromanaging because i hate it when i play AI.

	18-05-2000 00:36									#4
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Yikes - after looking at my old game, I thought I could do better than 175 BC, but this is a *lot* better!

What was the breakthrough in this game? AIs close by, lucky huts, well-placed rivers?

Congratulations!

	18-05-2000 00:43									#5
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WOW! That's good. I may have to take up this as a new challange. (I have to do something when no one is around to play MP )

	18-05-2000 01:03									#6
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There were several breakthroughs,but most important was 6 AI's on left side of continent and only me on right.
Continent wasn't amoeba-like as usual. It looked more recktangular.
I opened 4 huts before i build my capital and got 2 archers and 2 charriots.
STWA was finished 1650bc (with help of 2 barb kings and some Zulu money) and i got chivalry 2-3 turns before.
I used 2 triremes to bypass hill chain and finish Germans.
German capital was walled and i spend 4 diplos before i finally gave up (sabotaged 2x pyramids,once barracks and temple) only to find 1 phalanx and 1 warrior in it.
I killed Celts early with non-units.
One correction...they were on my side of continent.
I was also surprised when i saw 425bc. When i remember countless tries to beat your record...i was hoping to get them about 200bc.
Do you remember how long your record stayed?

	18-05-2000 01:12									#7
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So, do you have a 4000BC saved game that you could post as a comparison game?

	18-05-2000 01:21									#8
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SmartFart - I still have the save file from my old game; the date is April 29, 1999. So it lasted almost exactly a year. I don't think anyone was trying very hard to beat it all that time, though...

	18-05-2000 01:25									#9
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No i haven't
I only have autosave1 & 2
I haven't kept a log neither because i played about 100 games before i made it.
You never know when you will made it and 100 logs is just too much for lazy person such as myself

	18-05-2000 01:33									#10
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Oh...by the way...no river near 1st four cities.

	18-05-2000 01:50									#11
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argh!Just when I was closing in on 175BC

Congrats.Great game.Do you think it can go much lower?

	18-05-2000 02:29									#12
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I am not sure. Perhaps if i micromanaged my cities and build more triremes to get 1 extra movement i could save few more turns.

Crucial part was AI positions. I remember some of my 'great' starts with rivers,advanced tribes and wandering nomads,but if AI's are scattered around you have no chance.
Once i finished STWA 2150bc and haven't even broke bc barrier.
Best start is when you are in some kind of corner. That way you army march in one direction crushing everything in front of you. If you start in middle,you have no idea where to go.
One thing is sure...i am not going to try speed conquest very soon

	18-05-2000 17:49									#13
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Two to three games a day for approx two months!? You really wanted this baby, didn't ya'?

Congrats!

Carolus

	19-05-2000 01:39									#14
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Smartfart..... way to go!! this is indeed a difficult challenge..... last night the wife was out with the baby so i played a few games of civ, er uhm...23 in fact trying to beat the record. What a joke. The closest i came was 400AD.

Your correct when you state that being in a corner is the best and probably the only way to take out your record. I had one game which gave me hope..... i wiped out four civs and the americans wiped out one leaving just the americans and myself(the mongols).

this was by 700 BC i was thinking record, until i realized that they were on another continent...... alas it took me another millenium to find and send my triremes to those nasty american chickens, who by this time were walling most of their cities, well i killed them but by the time i finished, it was 400 AD and i was almost a millenium behind your incredible score. hats off to you and i shall keep trying.

BTW i started with Monarchy one game and it was one of the worst of all that i played. It seems starting with techs isn't nearly as important as finding the right techs from huts.... would you agree

	19-05-2000 03:19									#15
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I always prayed not to find any tech from the hut. Misleading techs spoiled some of my good starts. Tricky part is to get both Sun-Tzu and Chivalry about same turn.
You're right...it really doesn't matter if you start with Monarchy or w/o techs at all.
Of course,right tech from the hut or another civ is a bonus,but only thing that count is Sun-Tzu.
This is my 'wish' hut list...
1. 4 legged unit
2. 100 gold
3. Advanced tribe/nomad
4. Archer/Legion
5. Tech i need
6. Barbarians
7. Misleading tech
I will always look around for 3-4 huts before i place my capital.

However...you have to pick one misleading tech before monarchy (one that allows you to start wonder early). My pick is Mapmaking,because one extra movement could speed things up even if all civs are on same continent.
My capital never build a settler. 3 warriors and i go for wonder.
I did one BC conquest w/o Sun-Tzu,but i was very lucky with the huts in that one.
Sun-Tzu is a must because fresh captured cities cannot produce vet knights w/o it and they're always much closer to your next target than your initial cities.

I never played with 0% science and 30% luxuries after i have all techs i need because that idea never stroke my mind (i've read about it in Smash's post after i made it) and i am sure that could speed things up a bit. Micromanaging too,but i wanted fast games and micromanaiging is a pain.

	19-05-2000 04:31									#16
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Well done! That's a great record and a lot of work.
Which civ did you play?
I'm puzzled that you don't think that the starting techs were too important. Surely a Monarchy start must be an advantage? (other conditions such as huts/terrain/accessibility to other civs being average)

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SG (2)

	19-05-2000 05:05									#17
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Yes...Thinking general,starting Monarchy is indeed an advantage.
Problem is when you start with Monarchy on a small randomly generated maps you got some serious disadvantages as well,like 3-4 civs near you blocking your further expansions,using ZoC to slow your exploration,demanding a tribute from you early on when they bump with a charriot into your fresh undefeded city and similar things.

Clean start gives you opportunity to take 1/3 of the map without firing a bullet because with clean start there's no AI near you.

Besides...what's good in Monarchy when you have 2 cities? By the time i have 3-4,i'll be in monarchy anyway.
You may have additional shield on buffalo,but tribute is what builds Sun-Tzu.

I played as Aztec.

	19-05-2000 15:22									#18
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Very well done!

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	19-05-2000 15:27									#19
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Scouse: just a thought on something you mentioned earlier, about a occ bloodlust game in the off weeks!!
Well thinking about it an occ in bloodulust wouldn't work cause as soon as you conquer anyone it stops being occ!?!? But we could do a bc bloodlust challenge, using a standard map for comparison times? Does this idea grab anyone?

	19-05-2000 15:42									#20
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Sounds good - I'm in (with the reservation that I have just entered the 'buried under two weeks marking' stage of the year)

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Scouse Git[1]

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	19-05-2000 15:53									#21
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Have fun there Scouse!!!! Oh, the joys of teaching/lecturing?!?!?! Is it at least interesting stuff you're marking? or is it 1st year maths homework?!?! ha ha, first year maths, happy memories!!!!

Unless Paul wants to start this one up too, like the occ i could give it a go if no one else does!!!! i've got a little web space available at uni, access is limited but i can give it a go?!?!

Does anyone have any suggestions for the map, or do we just go for random, diety, raging, 7civs?

I'll start a new thread next week, unless someone else does?!?!

	19-05-2000 16:01									#22
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Don't forget small (or very small) world and no restart of eliminated civs. If you saved as a scenario people could play at whatever level they were happy with.

[moanmode]Program Design Coursework, Final Year Projects & Examination Papers[/moanmode]

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	19-05-2000 16:57									#23
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Yeah, have fun with all that work Scouse!!!! Don't go marking them too hard, now will you?!?!

So what kind of IS do you specialise in? is it programming, webstuff, general stuff?? I once had to program the timing sequence for some traffic lights using a 8085 (maybe) processor and assembly language - muchos funos!!!!

I forgot to say small map!!! so what 40x50, that's the small one on the map editor isn't it? is that one ok? And no restarting civs, and the scenario!!!! ok, i'll sort it out!!

	19-05-2000 17:48									#24
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SmartFart - did you pick the Aztecs for any reason - or was this a random choice. I ask this because the nature of the starting techs of the individual civs are quite different.
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SG (2)

	19-05-2000 18:25									#25
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No reason at all. I played as Aztec from old Amiga500 days.
Nothing more than habit.

	19-05-2000 18:57									#26
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Oldman - I'm a programmer with the glorious title of Webmaster - normal sort of thing - lots of responsibility no authority. These days I dabble in Systems Theory & Cybernetics - but Civ is more fun!

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	20-05-2000 09:28									#27
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You are indeed a smart fart SmartFart!
Congratulations!

If I understand correctly, you only build 1 city yourself, and you wander around collecting huts before you build it?

The most remarkable thing about Civ is that there seems to be an almost infinite number of ways of winning. So many games there are so few correct "formulas".

	20-05-2000 00:51									#28
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Not really.
I build 2 cities on 3750 bc. I haven't kept a log for other four.

	20-05-2000 04:29									#29
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hehe its rought being the mongols, three of those games were on the polar caps with no access to land, today it happened five times arggg this is frustrating to me

	20-05-2000 05:23									#30
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Smart Fart - what starting techs are your personal wet dream? Our research would suggest that the Sioux (or maybe the Persians) have the best probability of warlike techs albeit based largely on 'large map' experience - have you tried playing as Sioux?
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The SGs in consert (but mainly SG2)