22-05-2000 15:18									#1
	bc Bloodlust Challenge Increase the size of your Attachments

We've got OCC, Sp and multiplayer. So here is the New Speed Conquest Challenge, the bc Bloodlust!!!!!!!!

The rules are quite simple:
1) Conquer the Planet as quickly as you can.
2) No saving/reloading if things don't go your way!
3) See rule 2, I mean it!!!!!
4) Only your 1st attempt counts!
5) Keep a log! So other people can see how you did it, that way we can all learn how to play this game better. And i can put up a results table with comparitative points labled!
6) Make sure you enjoy yourself, lifes too short not too!!!

You can get the scenario from Here. The spec is:
Small random map
7 Civs
Raging Hordes
Don't restart eliminated players

Play as St George of the English, Try and play with Deity. But you if don't say what you did play with. Remember to have fun!!
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited May 22, 2000).]

	22-05-2000 16:05									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

OK I've d/led it - Lord knows when I shall have time to play, but thanks Oldman. I rather suspect that you might get your revenge in this approach to the game.
Good civin'

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	23-05-2000 01:31									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Oldman - good idea. I've downloaded the file; I'll report back when I've played it (in about a week or so, probably).

	23-05-2000 11:58									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

File d/l-ed.
Will post about results later today.
What do you want me to write in log file?
Every single event (hut results,techs,building/capturing cities) or just some basics?

	23-05-2000 13:50									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Smartfart, Really we need to include research, huts, anything you build, cities you take over, when you destroy civs etc. Check out one of the occ logs and do something along those lines, but it's all in the name of fun, so don't break your back doing it or anything!??!

Just thinking about it, what are the important strategies for this game? i'll try and write a rules file like pauls occ one when i figure out how this game is played!!

	23-05-2000 14:31									#6
	Put an end to popups!

uh oh.No log as I just finished OCC and was too lazy.

anyway I finished in 340 AD.No BC for me.I could have the record as 5 civs were down by 725 BC but I couldn't find the friggin Mongols!Imagine my fury when I did find where they were.argh!!

I got the first 5 with chariots and legions from huts.Well..I built a few chariots but got a half dozen legions from huts.Didn't have Chiv until 500bc or something.Didn't establish Monarchy till 1000BC.

This might catch on as it,like OCC, doesn't take too long.My game lasted about 2 hours(without log)Maybe another half hour for a log.That might get a little tedious as you may have a dozen cities.

	23-05-2000 16:41									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Congratulations Smash!
Your score is far better than mine.
I made it 660ad.
1550 - Sun-Tzu
1450 - Chivalry
900 - Russians
60AD - Aztecs
120 - Mongols and Babilonians
460 - Vikings
660 - Americans

I faced 7!!! walled cities (4 of them on the river).
Did you encountered any?

Sorry i haven't made detailed log,but thats just too much for me.

	23-05-2000 19:47									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

I need help. Here is a log, the best way I know how to do it.

4000bc- moved settlers west
3950bc- hut-legion; built london; london building warriors
3900bc- researching h-back riding
3850bc- founded York; york building warriors
3750bc- london builds warriors; building settler
3650bc- discovered h-back riding; researching cere burial; hut-50gold
3600bc- york builds warriors; building settler
3350bc- contact with russians; peace treaty for now
3200bc- london builds settlers; building some more; break treaty with russians
3100bc- nottingham founded; building warriors
3000bc- cere burial discovered; researching code of laws
2900bc- nottingham builds warriors; building settlers
2600bc- york and london each build settlers; building more
2450bc- hastings founded; building warriors
2300bc- canturbury founded; building warriors
2250bc- hastings builds warriors; building settlers
2200bc- discover code; researching trade
2100bc- nottingham builds settlers; building more
2050bc- canterbury builds warriors; building settlers
1900bc- london builds settlers; building more
1750bc- meet babylonians; get mysticism and pottery; peace for now
1650bc- found coventry and warrick; both building warriors
1500bc- York builds settlers; building more; moscow destroyed
1350bc- trade discovered; researching monarchy; switched to producing caravans
1200bc- newcastle founded; building warriors; babylonians offer alliance. Why not? 50 gold
1150bc- oxford founded; building warriors
1000bc- made a ceasefire with russians to save a city
800bc- monarchy discovered; researching fuedalism; revolt
750bc- contact with mongols; peace; 100 gold tribute
725bc- captured st. petersburg. Get map-making. Russia’s still not dead yet?

Ain’t no way I’m coming in before BC, so I’ll halt this game and ask for advice. I did my best attempt at ICS, but it is not something I really know hot to play, and quite uncomfortable for me to play after all those OCC games. Looking at the entire map, I see that I have 10 cities at size one or two; but there are still two russian cities; 4 mongol, 1 viking, 4 american, 2 babylonian, and 2 aztec. It is doubtful I would even have contact with the aztecs by 1-ad. I have little doubt I would win this game by around 1600-1700, possibly sooner, but I want to get better at fast conquest. Please give advice. I’m looking for tech-paths, unit building philosophies, city improvements, etc.

Thanks.

	23-05-2000 20:58									#9
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Vik, I hope that some one here will gives us OCCer's some advice, it looks like w're going to get obliterated?!!?!? I'll try this tonight and see what i can come up with!! But i think i may need to change the name to just Speed Conquest Challenge SCC, hey that's actually a better idea - can Ming change thread titles?

Ming: In case you read this, do you like e-mails or would you rather we posted? Anyway, are you able to change the title of threads? if so do you want to change this one to "Speed Conquest Challenge", cheers!!

Good luck with your game Vik, maybe the trick is to just go all out for the military techs and get quick horses and knights?

	23-05-2000 22:23									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I faced several river cities but I got to them before they could build phalanx and walls.Cept the Mongols who had walls but only 2 small cities,Dam Mongols.Needle in a haystack.They were right there...

I more or less went the hut route.I didn't finish Sun's until the first 5 were gone(after 725 BC).I got very lucky in that I found units close to civs as well as 2 nomads which allowed me build on their doorstep.

score was 1640-213%

anything pre AD requires a fair amount of good luck.

the tech path path is simple really.Monarchy-Feudalism-Chivalry.After Feudal you usually have to adjust your tax rate to 70-30-0 so you get Chiv about the same time as you finish Sun's.This one you started with a wonder tech but with none I usually take Map as I may need boats and it has a wonder attached.After Chiv I change to 70-0-30 and use incremental rush building for nothing but Knights.Maybe a few diplomats.I increase luxuries as I capture cities and "extra" unhappies start to appear.At the end I'll be running 30-0-70.I got kinda screwed by hut technology in this one but not a huge problem as I was never gonna see modern ages
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited May 23, 2000).]

	24-05-2000 14:04									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

This is tougher than i thought!?!?!? I found the russians early, and wiped them out before they expanded!!! similar to the vikings!

I've almost got the americans, and the bulk of that force will finish off the babylonians!!! i've got about 3 chariots, 4 legion and about 4 horsemen assulting the aztecs, but as of yet haven't touched the mongols, found them late and my resources were needed elsewhere!!! I think i'll be luck to get a 600ad finish!!!

I have no idea where my techs are, sun tzu - Gazuntites!!! no idea, but i've turned out 100's of men!!!!

Does any one have any idea how to take walled cities, on forest squares?!?! with legion in side????? i've thrown 3 legion of mine at theirs and not even dented them, what shall i do?? do i just keep on sending in dips and hopeing they get lucky????

PS: it's currently 40ad
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited May 24, 2000).]

	24-05-2000 22:53									#12
	Got spare money?

I hate when you stall out against those walled river cities.You may have go after the walls with diplomats.Or bypass for now and overwhelm with sheer numbers later.Or try to get math and catapults.If it ain't a capitol,save up some gold and bribe the sucker

	24-05-2000 23:05									#13
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I agree with Smash, a good army consists of half attack units and half bribe units. Except for the capital, bribing is the best way to go against walled, river/hill cities.

Actually, let me add to that. If the city requires way more gold than you have, use diplomats to sabotage, esp. the temple, then the city will go in disorder, thus cheaper to bribe. For capitals, use diplomats to weaken the defenses, esp. walls and units, and then you can easily attack with a handful of units.
[This message has been edited by Steve Clark (edited May 24, 2000).]

	25-05-2000 09:29									#14
	Tired of ads?

I spend over 20 diplos to get all-but-one walls down. American capital even had a Harbour

	25-05-2000 15:32									#15
	Tired of ads?

Yeah, it looks like i'm going to have to do a lot more production to get this one wrapped up!!!!! bucket loads of dips, catapults, legion, chariots!!!! the list goes on...

I created a site yesterday, it's basically a modified version of Pauls OCC site cause i'd forgotten all the linking bits and i had a problem with word again!??! Have any of you ever got word to make a web page nicely for you??? so i went back to notepad and bumbled along?!?! anyway, it's basic but here it is The bc Bloodlust Challenge and i've been fiddling about with some Java too, wicked!!!! But, this is where i'll post anymore comparison zips in future!!

	25-05-2000 23:14									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I need to learn how to really wage a war so count me in. My goal is to see the guillotine fall before 1000 AD...

Carolus

[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited May 25, 2000).]

	26-05-2000 18:04									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

AD 140, I've just got the Americans and Aztecs to finish off. It will be nip and tuck beating Smash's time. I'll post my log when I finish the game (which may be next week sometime).

I'd forgotten how much I enjoy this type of game. I made lots of mistakes in the early game, and had bad luck with barbarians killing my exploring units. Bring on round 2!

One key to success in this game: explore early, find the AIs, and demand tribute. I played with MGE, and demanded tribute every turn. The AIs would alternate between declaring war and begging for peace (we offer you all our gold (6) and technology for a cease fire).

	27-05-2000 01:29									#18
	Got spare money?

Finished 'em off in AD 360. A single barb trireme sank my whole invasion fleet of three triremes, costing me several turns. Here's the log, as promised:

Notes:
-3250 Barb Legion lands near York. -3000? Dies attacking York (after killing 2 warriors, 1 horse, 1 phalanx)
-2100 Barb legion kills exploring horsemen
-1650 Two Barb Legions, barb leader near Nottingham
-1600 Bribe barb legion, kill other legion & leader
-675 Mongols, Vikings sign secret alliance vs. English
-600 Barb leader (cha-ching!)
-525 Two barb legions land near London. Kill them with a vet elephant.
-350 Two barb knights land near Coventry. Bribe one -325. Bribe 2nd -250.
-325 Babylonians, Americans sign secret alliance vs. English
60 Barb crusaders land near York, Coventry. Bribe one 80. Kill crusader & leader 100. Kill crusader 200.
140 Give Aztecs Trade, Philosophy, Seafaring. Exchange maps.
200 Barb trireme sinks trireme, two knights on the way to visit Aztecs. Arggghhh.
220 My trireme damages, but doesn't sink, barb trireme. Barb trireme sinks my remaining trireme, 2 knights. Double arggghhh.

@ENGLISH
London -3950
York -3750
Nottingham H-3450
Hastings -1950
Canterbury -1650
Coventry -1500
Warwick -1200
Newcastle -925
Oxford -925
Liverpool -800
Dover -725
Brighton -450

@BABYLONIANS
Babylon -50 20 gold
Ur -200 6 gold, Seafaring (destroyed)
Nineveh -150 17 gold, Masonry

@AMERICANS
Washington (walled) 180, 43 gold
New York 80, 12 gold
Boston 20, 4 gold, Construction
Philadelphia 200, 9 gold
Atlanta (walled) 60, 9 gold

@RUSSIANS
Moscow -450 14 gold, Mysticism
St. Petersburg -325 6 gold
Kiev -250 (destroyed)

@AZTECS
Tenochtitlan 360, 36 gold
Tlatelolco 280, 17 gold
Texcoco 340, 12 gold, The Republic

@MONGOLS
Karakorum -25 2 gold (destroyed)
Samarkand -200 4 gold (destroyed)
Bokhara 20 8 gold
Nishapur -200 9 gold
Kashgar 20 5 gold

@VIKINGS
Trondheim -300 2 gold
Kaupang 40, 2 gold
Uppsala -275 4 gold

Pyramids, -325 New York
Hanging Gardens, -800 London
Sun Tzu's War Academy, -650 London

Alphabet, -4000
Bronze Working, -4000
Iron Working, -4000
Warrior Code, -4000
Horseback Riding, -3600
Ceremonial Burial, -3200
Code of Laws, -2750
Writing, R-2500
Map Making, Az-2200
Pottery, R-2000
Monarchy, -1700
The Wheel, M-1550
Currency, B-1400
Trade, -900
Feudalism, -675
Polytheism, M-650
Chivalry, -450
Seafaring, B-200
Masonry, B-150
Mysticism, R-450
Construction, Am20
Monotheism, 140
Philosophy, 140
Engineering, H200

Tribute:
________Russians____Babylonians_Vikings_____Aztecs
______Americans___Mongols
-2500___Writing
-2450___War
-2400___50
-2250___No
- 2200_______________________________________Map_Mak
ing
- 2150___No__________________________________No_Maps

-2100___No__________________________________War
-2050___No__________________________________100
-2000___Pottery_____________________________No
-1950___War_________________________________War
- 1900___War_________________________________32_____
_________________100
- 1800___100_________________________________War____
_________________War
- 1750___No__________________________________9______
_________________War
- 1700___No__________________________________War____
_________________War
-1650___War_________________________________6
- 1600___War_________________________________No_____
_________________No
- 1550___War_________________________________No_____
_________________The_Wheel
- 1500___War_________________________________War____
_________________No
- 1450___War_____________________150_________12_____
_________________No
- 1400___No__________Currency____No__________War____
_________________No
- 1350___50__________No__________No__________6______
_________________No
- 1300___No__________No__________No__________No_____
_________________No
- 1250___No__________No__________No__________No_____
_________________War
- 1200___No__________No__________War_________War____
_________________50
- 1150___War_________No__________War_________War____
_________________No
- 1100___(Myst)War___No__________War_________War____
_________________No
- 1000___No__________75__________War_________War____
_________________No
- 975____No__________50__________50__________War____
_________________No
- 950____50__________25__________War_________War____
_________________No
- 925____No__________War_________War_________War____
_________________War
- 900____No__________War_________Peace_______War____
_________________War
- 875____War_________50__________No__________War____
_________________War
- 850____War_________No__________No__________War____
_________________50
- 825____War_________War_________War_________(Litera
cy)War___________No
- 800____War_________War_________War_________War____
_________________War
- 775____War_________War_________50__________War____
_________________(Poly)War
- 750____50__________No__________War_________50_____
_________________War
- 725____War_________War_________War_________War____
_________________War
- 700____War_________War_________War_________War____
_________________War
- 675____War_________War_________War_________War____
_________________War
- 650____War_________War_________War_________War____
_________________Polytheism
- 625____War_________No__________War_________War____
_________________No
- 600____War_________50__________50__________War____
_____150_________No
- 575____War_________No__________No__________War____
_____No__________War
- 550____War_________War_________War_________War____
_____War_________50
- 525____War_________War_________War_________War____
_____War_________No
- 500____(50)War_____War_________War_________War____
_____50__________No
- 475____War_________War_________50__________War____
_____No__________War
- 450____50__________War_________No__________Literac
y____No__________War
- 425____No__________(Masonry)50_No__________No_____
_____No__________50
- 400____War_________War_________No__________No_____
_____War_________No
- 375____War_________No__________War_________War____
_____(Seafar)50__No
- 350____No__________War_________War_________50_____
_____War_________No
- 325____War_________War_________50__________No_____
_____War_________No
- 300____War_________War_________War_________No_____
_____War_________No
- 275____War_________War_________War_________War____
_____War_________No
- 250________________(Seafar)War_War_________War____
_____War_________No
- 225________________No__________No__________War____
_____50__________No
- 200________________No__________War_________War____
_____No__________No
- 175________________No__________War_________War____
_____No__________No
- 150________________War_________War_________War____
_____No__________No
- 125________________No__________17__________War____
_____No__________War
- 100________________War_________War_________War____
_____No__________50
- 75_________________No__________War_________War____
_____No__________No
- 50_________________No__________War_________War____
_____No__________No
- 25_____________________________War_________War____
_____25__________War
1_______________________________War_________200___
______25__________No
20______________________________20__________War___
______25__________No
40______________________________No__________War___
______No
60__________________________________________War___
______War
100_________________________________________War___
______No
120_________________________________________War___
______War
140_________________________________________Exch_m
ap_ _No
160_________________________________________No____
______War
180_________________________________________No____
______War

Huts:
-3950 Legion (NONE)
-3450 Advanced Tribe (Nottingham)
-2500 Legion (NONE)
-2150 Barbarian horsemen
-975 Barbarian horsemen*4
140 Nomads
200 Engineering

	27-05-2000 01:38									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

ok now I have an idea,so next time I will have a better log.....oops...A LOG.


I just checked my last save and it was 360 AD!So,for now, we are joint 1st

	28-05-2000 15:53									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Alrighty-then, Here's my log!!! It places me in 3rd, but i'm happy with it. I ran into the mongols early when i found the vikings, the russians were easy especially back in 1350bc. But i found techs slow to come by, so never built Sun Tzu's or got Chivalry!!

But 'eres Da Log:

2.42 Deity

Conquest 500ad

Sun Tzu

Russians 1350bc
Vikings 750bc
Americans 160ad
Babylonians 260ad
Aztecs 460ad
Mongols 500ad

Writing 325bc
Monarchy 550bc
Feudalism 340ad
Chivalry

4000bc founded London
3950bc horsemen from hut
3850bc Militia
3800bc horseback riding (hut)
3650bc York founded
3550bc horsemen (lon)
3400bc met russians, exchanged iron for pottery, horse for ceremonial
3550bc horsemen (york)
3200bc advanced tribe (hut)
3000bc nomads from hut
2900bc Hastings founded
2850bc myst and masonry from baby's ally and 50 gold!
2800bc horsemen lost to barbs
2600bc legion from hut
peace with vikings, 50 tribute
150 for barb leader
2550bc settlers produced at york and london
2250bc 88 gold to save london from barbs!
2150bc canterbury founded
1900bc coventryfounded next to moscow(almost)
1700bc legion (york)
1600bc archer (lon)
1600bc code of laws from baby's, 50 gift
1500bc horse (hast)
1400bc horse (canter)
1350bc Moscow captured, russians destroyed!!!!!!! 45 plunder
1000bc 62 to save canter from barbs
925bc mapmaking and currency from baby's
850bc Trondheim destroyed
200 tribute from aztecs
750bc uppsala destroyed, viking civ destroyed!!!!!!!
600bc nomads (hut)
550bc Monarchy, revolution
525bc MONARCHY!!!
500bc Warwick founded
475bc tireme
375bc horsemen (hut)
325bc writing from english, 150,75 and 50 tributes from babylon, aztec and mongols
225bc war with americans for 50 from mongols
150bc Washington captured!!!!
50bc new york captured!!
1ad tlatelalco captured!
20ad philadelphia captured
40ad boston destroyed!
100ad texacco captured
160ad atlanta captured, americans destroyed!!!!!!!
180ad Ur lost to barbarians
220ad teot... captured!
babylon destroyed!
260ad nivehen destroyed!
babylonians destroyed!!!!!!
340ad Feudalism
360ad tenochiltenan captured
420ad bokhara captured, tabiz destroyed!
440ad karakorum captured!
460ad tlaxcala captured
aztecs destroyed!!!!!!!
480ad moscow lost to barbarians
500ad nishapur destroyed!
kashgar destroyed
Mongols destroyed!!!!!!!

St George the Magnificent, 213% & 1640 points!!!

	28-05-2000 16:06									#21
	Remove this text

Here is the comparison Table, I've included stuff i think might be appropriate, but your opinions are welcome!!!

Great game everyone, and for those that haven't played it, i'll endevour to put your results on the table whenever you supmit a log!!

	29-05-2000 15:37									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Smash already said the same thing in "The First Space Oddysey Challenge" thread, but I suggest we use the save game from that thread for our round 2 challenge game.

	30-05-2000 12:54									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

Fair enough!! I've not looked at the space oddysey challenge yet, I made up a scenario last night, mainly just random small map, but it can wait!!! I'll post the SOC1 scenario soonish, but i was thinking of running this about every fortnight like OCC, access times and all!?!?
So unless anyway has any real objections to this, i'll put it up in a day or 2!!!

	30-05-2000 23:36									#24
	Increase Your PM Length

Oldman: I had a bug!

The first hut I popped gave Ceremonial Burial. (Most other players seem to have obtained a unit). Then I founded London. I was never offered any research options. I played on for a few turns, but never saw the window “What shall our scientists pursue next?”

Looking at the Science Advisor screen, I guess you added a couple of techs for the scenario, as two were written in white.

--------

SG (2)

	31-05-2000 00:07									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

were you generating any beakers?

	31-05-2000 07:52									#26
	Support Apolyton

No beakers - the Science Advisor window looked like it does when you have gained the tech you are currently researching by other means.

-------
SG (2)

	31-05-2000 09:33									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

you have to be generating at least 1 beaker.

Did you build on a hill or forest and work a wheat or something?


[This message has been edited by Smash (edited May 31, 2000).]

	01-06-2000 09:41									#28
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I've re-started: obtained a unit from the first hut - and all seems well.
----------
SG (2)

	01-06-2000 15:02									#29
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Sorry to hear about the bug Scouse!!! glad you're back playing civ again!!! you'll have to get your socks on though, i'm going to post the next one at the weekend!! and there are 2 occ's to play!!!

Just had a thought about the next one, i was going to post the SOC1 game as the next one. But, wouldn't this give an unfair advantage to those that have played it? they'll know the map, where the AI Civs are and so forth?? Does anyone have any opinions about this? should i set it so everyone can see the whole map? or have you all played soc1 and i'm the only one going to be disadvantaged!??!

	01-06-2000 15:44									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Oldman - when I suggested we use the SOC1 game for round 2, I assumed no one would have the desire (or time) to play that game through to both conquest and spaceship conclusions. If someone really plans on doing both, I guess we'd better go with a different scheme.