31-05-2001 20:23									#1
	Hut - Barb - Location Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Since doing the research on Starting Techs I have been convinced there is much to learn about the nature of hut popping! The interest began with an effort to see if there was any correlation between the description of a civ and the sciences gained from villages. For example: were the militaristic nations more likely to find different scrolls from their more civilised cousins. After several hundred tests no pattern emerged. (All tests were conducted in actual game play and not in cheat mode.)

When time allows I still run some tests - as the subject is crucial to good or poor game starts during the BC years. As this matter is now topical (see samson's threads on Nomads) I can shed some light on the barb aspect of village visiting.

Before the game matures, the early barb outcome is a single guy - not the maximum of eight. It is possible to predict the location of this nuisance. I'm afraid it's another list of years!

There are eight squares surrounding a hut in open country. The red menace will appear as follows:

4000BC - Square to the East
3950BC - South East
3900BC - South
3850BC - South West
3800BC - West
3750BC - North West
3700BC - North
3650BC - North East

3600BC East etc …

The pattern continues in a clockwise manner around the eight compass points, until the game progresses to a point when multiple barbs surround the Hut Square.

Testing has shown that there is a transition period when the barb outcome can be either one or a full hit! Don't attempt to be clever and place a unit on the predicted square, as usually the barb will move one tile around in a clockwise direction. On rare occasions no barb will appear as he is "lost at sea" - usually on isthmus locations.

There are obvious advantages in knowing the location of trouble. However, the more interesting aspect is the discovery of another table of years. Is this pattern used for other parts of the game like Advanced Tribes with Temples and Laundries - or more important things!?

The whole business of hut testing is both maddening and intriguing. I have further hunches that I need to examine in more depth.

Test were conducted in real game situations in 2.42/MP at Deity/Raging Hordes.

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SG(2)

	31-05-2001 20:40									#2
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Nice work, SG.

This strengthens my suspicion that many things we take to be "random" events are not entirely so.

	31-05-2001 22:37									#3
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Obviously Civ2's random number generator uses a seed based on clock time ... the game year!

	31-05-2001 22:58									#4
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Cool. I have also been curious... On each terrain type, what are the odds of each outcome. For example, on grassland, Advanced tribe 10%, etc.

	31-05-2001 23:16									#5
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Good job, SG!

Hehe, I can hardly believe this. CIV3 will be out in less than a year, and there are still secrets discovered in CIV2... Too bad those secrets are about predictable 'random' mechanics most of the time

	31-05-2001 23:40									#6
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Well done SG; I admire your patience for the testing. I wonder if the results are not actually based on the turn number, rather than the year. This would enable a correlation on lower levels. (Not that I actually play on those levels, but some of the folks here apparently do.) If you have a unit standing on the anticipated arrival site, does the barb displace or disappear? Either result would reinforce the suggestion on another thread to explore and pop huts with a two unit set, the second being a diplomat, when possible. That way, the diplo can be placed to prevent/buy the barb when it appears.

	01-06-2001 00:36									#7
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Wow, good work indeed.

My felicitations, sir.

Anyway, yet another thread to print out and store in the ever growing pile by the computer.

One problem with the advance of understanding is the old carefree days of punching buttons gaily and seeing what happens next are long gone. I have descended to turn by turn visits to every city and the times I have to break off, consult some wisdom, and work out an aspect of a current move are legion.

Still fun though - and one day there'll be that perfect game. No blunder. Good luck and good calculation all the way. A mighty civ wondrous to behold bestriding the world like a collosus with its God like leader bathed in a glow of righteous satisfaction.

That'll be the moment, of course, when the insignificant and un-noticed Mongol no-mark unit slips into that city I forgot to re-garrison ten moves back, gets Nuclear Fission for his trouble and the God like leader starts cursing (again).

	01-06-2001 00:44									#8
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Hopefully, the Civ III developers are reading these threads and using different random number generators in that version. That way, we will be forced back to the carefree days of yore until the researchers reveal the new secrets.