17-05-2000 16:48									#1
	What is Capitalization? Get a bigger avatar today!

Can someone provide a clear explanation of Capitalization? I've read the documentation but still don't understand it.

First, exactly what is it and/or what is it for?

Second, a couple times when I've tried to "build" it, it never seems to get completed. The menu says "Capitalization - 12 turns (for example), and I choose it. Then I build it for about 30 turns, it seems, and it's still not done. What does it take to complete it?

	17-05-2000 16:51									#2
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Capitalization doesn't build anything.

What it does do is give you one gold for each shield that the city produces.

It is meant to be used when you having nothing else that you want to build, or if you need quick gold.

It will never be "completed" because it continues providing gold as long as you are in it. It shows a number of turns to completion, for consistancy purposes only

	17-05-2000 17:31									#3
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Capitalisation is Civ2 is a representation of how a society will perform should it lend itself to totally capitalist ways. No longer building boats, or equipment. Not building any one specific thing such as a library, colleseum or contributing towards a larger goal like a wonder. Where the city just becomes a capitalist city, full of shopping centres, macdonalds, clothes shops and the like with no other use but to produce money!!! But don't go getting me started on this, ok...


So, basically it's just as Ming said!!!

	17-05-2000 17:41									#4
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An interesting thing about Capitalization is that it "freezes" the shields in your box. So if you have 200 shields in the box, switch to Capitalization, then switch back, those 200 shields are still there waiting...

	17-05-2000 17:59									#5
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What did i tell you!!!! capitalization is the Devils work?!?!?

	17-05-2000 18:10									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

DaveV, I was hoping that no one would mention that little detail. We can now expect Venger to come and announce that it is a cheat or a crutch for weaker players.

RAH
The ferrets are feeling mischievous

	17-05-2000 18:14									#7
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Can we get Ming to delete this thread so Venger doesn't find it? "Miiiiinnnnnggggggggg!!!!!!!" are you out there???? ha ha!! i bet Vengers already forming his synopsis for the novel he'll end up writing about it?!?!


Edited: Curse my stupid touch-typing!!??!
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited May 17, 2000).]

	17-05-2000 18:17									#8
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I'm here

And it doesn't matter if he sees it.
I look forward to all intellegent responses that add to the debate. These forums are meant to be a place to exchange ideas... knowledge... blah... blah... blah... snore...

	17-05-2000 18:38									#9
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I sometimes get myself into slight problems when I place a few large cities into capitalization mode. All of a sudden I find myself needing that income!

	17-05-2000 19:05									#10
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I hear you MWHC. Sometimes, when I'm waiting for the next advance so I can build something new, I will put my cities with nothing better to do into capitalization. Then, when I discover the needed tech to build what I want, I really miss the money that was being generated by those cities

	17-05-2000 19:14									#11
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Okay thanks, I've got it. Simple enough now that I know.

Has anyone analyzed the tradeoff between capitalization and caravans/freight? When would it be advantageous to go to capitalization (as opposed to building caravans/freight and getting the trade bonus)?

	17-05-2000 19:24									#12
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It would have to depend upon your distribution network!!! You really want to have 3 trade roots set up for each city anyway early on (ideally), if you could get your caravans to a city a fair way off quickly it might be worth it!! check out this site http://ltssg3.epfl.ch/~winkler/civ2.html it's got a couple of equations for the trade earned and cash bonus from trading!!!

Now your homework for this evening Campo is to write 500 words on which is a beneficial method of raising cash and why!!

	17-05-2000 19:59									#13
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The simplest possible analysis of 'value for money' from Capitalisation would suggest that in general it is a big NO NO.

In Cap you get 1g per shield, thus you can choose between 50+ gold or 1 caravan (where 50+ indicates the number of shields you need to produce to get one caravan - I guess the worst case would be a production of 49 shields ) Now that caravan is worth what?
200g if used to help build a wonder or a SS part, 125g if disbanded for some other unit, 100g (? not quite certain of this figure) if disbanded for a city improvement or trade, gold & beakers if used as a trade-route creator. I suspect even a lowly food caravan used as such (i.e. to provide food) will have an indirect value of more than 50g.

However, all the above can be irrelevent if you have a need for cash now...

Good civin'

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	17-05-2000 20:05									#14
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In most of my total warfare games, once it starts, I typically have half of my cities in Capitalization and the other half building military units. Esp. under the Fundamentalism crutch , I can easily build 6-10 attack/spy units per turn when I'm getting 1000+ per turn from Capitalization and tributes.

	17-05-2000 20:08									#15
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I will only use it as a very short term money fix, or when there is ABSOLUTLY nothing I want to build for a turn or two, or if I just want to ignore the city for the rest of the game

	17-05-2000 20:20									#16
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SG1 - sorry to be pedantic with a pedagogue, but I have to correct your math. When a caravan is disbanded for another unit or improvement, it only contributes 25 shields to the box. So it would be worth approximately 61 gold and exactly 50 gold in those respective cases.

A trade caravan is almost certainly going to be worth more than the equivalent gold from capitalization. Food caravans are questionable.

	17-05-2000 20:24									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

I generally only use Capitalization as a city management and shield saving tool right before Apollo's is built. When a city builds a unit or improvement a few turns before I am able to build spaceship parts, I'll use Capitalization in that city so that know that city is ready to build parts. This way I'm not penalized for switching from one type of production to a spaceship part and I get some extra money too. Instead of wasting shields, I'm making a little money while waiting for Apollo's.

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	17-05-2000 20:30									#18
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DaveV - I stand corrected - thank you - a stupid mistake.

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	18-05-2000 09:33									#19
	Got spare money?

What gets me is that Capitalization occurs as late in the game as it does; by the time it arrives, caravans usually do out produce in gold. Now, if Cap occured, say, with trade (at the same time as caravans), or even economics, it would pose a harder choice.

BTW, I also use what I call the poor man's cap: if I have a city that produces a lot of shields, but little trade (rnedering caravans less than effective), and I have nothing better for it to build, I'll have it build a barracks, sell it, build another, etc. The gold for shields rate is identical to cap. Anybody else do this?

	18-05-2000 09:54									#20
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Seems like Scouse Gits and DaveV did my homework for me. That frees me to start another OCC game tonight.

	18-05-2000 09:58									#21
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mad monk...... i do this as well, but its not always planned that way

Capitalization is great in Fundy, when your building up a large treasury to go shopping with..... Gee let me see...... i will march over to Germany and buy that BMW producing city and next, i am off to China for some cheap labour or perhaps India... Oh and i need some new electronics, i better buy that japanese city as well

	17-05-2000 22:29									#22
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I remember the very first game I played.Didn't have a clue.The ai was building all these wonder of the world things so I decided I should build one.

You guessed it.The wonder of Capitolization.It came late game so I figured it must be a good one.

Still waitin to finish it.

	17-05-2000 22:38									#23
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In my (first and so far only) OCC game, which the Egyptians won, my spy investigated a couple dozen of their cities and all were doing capitalization. I guess they were increasing their treasury while waiting for the necessary techs for AC.

	17-05-2000 22:52									#24
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I've used the old barracks trick many times before. Early in the game, when you have enough defenders, don't want to build another settler until the ones you have already kicked out have started cities, and have nothing else to build, barracks can at least provide a little extra money.
And I've also used the old build some spies to disband as the poor mans caravan wonder building trick.

You do what you have to sometimes

	18-05-2000 19:45									#25
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Last game i played, i disbanded all my defences one at a time. To give me a start on my spaceship modules, so i could rush buy them!!!! I spent about 3 turns with my only city (occ) undefended, just to shave about 6 years off my landing time!!!!

	19-05-2000 14:49									#26
	Remove this text

City Defences in OCC, Oldman, Shame on you!


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	19-05-2000 15:17									#27
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it was only a couple of militia and a legion i found in a hut?!?!? is that really sooooo bad?!?! it's not like i wasted 40 years building all sorts of marines or riflemen!??!?!

	19-05-2000 15:36									#28
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Sorry, I thought you meant Defences not Defenders - I'll let you off the odd hut found unit...

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	19-05-2000 16:06									#29
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Give me some credit per-lease?!?!? I know i do some stupid things, building 2 aquaducts, forgetting to build a colleseum, but city defences, that's almost blasphemous in occ?!?!?!!?
I think we have gotten slightly off the topic of conversation here now, i mean from capitalism to religion? Interesting combination, kind of surreal though...

	07-06-2000 05:00									#30
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maybe I'm missing some inferred points here, but while food caravans are brought up, no one seems to be pointing out that sometimes, they are the only caravan option. I've had cities where i've built 5-6 food caravans in a row before i finally decided that capitalization was the way to go, especially if i didn't want to build and sell stuff like city walls while waiting for a new improvement to become available, or if i just want to ignore the city for the remainder of the game