01-06-2001 15:59									#1
	Citizen Loyalties to Government Types Enter the AD-FREE zone

The form of government your citizens are loyal to should be a factor in Civ 3.

For example, 2% of the city of New York could be 'loyal' to Communism, 20% to a Monarchy, 18% to a Fundamentalist government and 60% to a democratic government.

The longer a certain government is in power, the more citizens will grow 'loyal' to it- for example, if the French capital, Paris was 30% loyal to democracy after 1 turn of a democratic government, after 50 turns 75% could be loyal to democracy.

People being held under a government they are not 'loyal' to will be unhappy - this means that an invasion of a democratic civ by a democratic civ will cause less unrest among the people. However, if a communist civ invades a democratic civ, the citizens would be rather unhappy, especially if they had lived under a democracy for a long time.

This would accurately represent different governments people support- the percentages could be altered by propaganda or (if your civ is a dictatorship) by purging citizens.

Wonders could increase loyalty to a certain government (for example, the Statue of Liberty could increase democratic support, whilst the Kremlin could increase Communist support.

It's probably too late to implement it but I think it's a really good idea.

	01-06-2001 18:08									#2
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Hm,
So more turns under comunism mean people like it more? I am not so sure...Ditto monarchy, ditto despotism or anything else. People get tired of democracy and 'democracy' as well and just opt for a 'strong hand'.
Alternatively, make 100% of New Yorkers committed to $$$$ and make them revolt when the economy hits the slumps. Now, that would add some reality.

	01-06-2001 19:42									#3
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quote: Originally posted by LaRusso Hm, So more turns under comunism mean people like it more? I am not so sure..

Quite true in fact. Look at what happens in Russia. There's strong communistic nostalgia mouvement.

Many Ruusian (not the majority of course) would like have a communist gouvernment.
Because the passage toa new gouvernment bring anarchy and peoples are afraid of changing.

	01-06-2001 20:19									#4
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Well, all that fiddling with nostalgia percentages might get a bit complicated. They are nostalgic because they are starving, not because they are particularly fond of so-called communism (socialism or whatever you call it).

French were not very fond of monarchy once it was overthrown, even if you regard Napoleon III as a 'king'.

Implementing percentages would heavily penalize you for any kind of govt. change, so as not to upset people for too long. 5 turns of anarchy are fine - that's 5 years at least, just as it should be.

	01-06-2001 22:30									#5
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It could get a little complicated, but I think it would be really realistic, making your civ more believable.
I mean- look at Civ 2 - your people could go from democracy to communism without any unrest? Hardly realistic.

To prevent major unrest when you change government forms, the player could feed the citizens propaganda, etc. towards the government from you wish to change to BEFORE you do so - now that would be interesting.

	01-06-2001 23:21									#6
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and maybe, you could also feed a little propaganda to neighbouring civs, if their government is different from yours, so that when you invade them, the citizenry would't look at you as "invader" but rather "saviour"

	02-06-2001 01:16									#7
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Hmm, good idea. It's too late to take it in, probably, but oh well. People could gain different loyalties for different reasons, of course - for instance, if there are lots of wars then people will start supporting Democracy, if there are lots of poor people they'll root for Communism, if people are revolting alot they'll want some order brough by Monarchy or Despotism, and so on. Factories would increase support for Communism, Barracks for Fascism (or some other militaristic ideology) and so on. Could even be comined with SE.

	02-06-2001 02:13									#8
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That's a good idea, Stefu.

Just because I have nothing better to do, here's a list of some improvements and which government they'd create (and lose) loyalty for (as well as their usual benefits).

(Oh, and any improvement built under your current government would increase loyalty slightly as people recieve a benefit).


I'm going by the governments included in Civ2.


For example,

Library:- + Republic + Democracy - Despotism

A library makes your citizens more learned and thus have a lower tolerance of oppression.


Bank:- +Republic +Democracy -Communism

Barracks:- +Despotism +Communism -Democracy

Cathedral:- +Monarchy +Fundamentalism -Communism

Colosseum:- +Republic

Courthouse:- +Republic +Democracy -Despotism

Factory:- +Communism

Marketplace:- +Republic +Democracy -Communism

Palace:- +Despotism +Monarchy +Fundamentalism - Democracy -Communism

	02-06-2001 02:23									#9
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Political ideologies are similar to culture, just look at SMAC every faction had it's own ideology which was also similar to culture. So maybe political ideology will play a role in CIV III, at the very least it should influence cultural ratings and vice versa.

	02-06-2001 02:28									#10
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yeah, but unfortunately social engineering is gone in CivIII so ideology might not play so big a role.

	04-06-2001 02:29									#11
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I like the way the system is, at least as it is described on the official site.

The happier your citizens are, the more loyal they are to you (regardless of government type.) Also, conquered cities have loyalty to original civ, which only dwindles with time and shifts toward the civ that has control of the city (if you can keep them happy long enough so that they don't revolt and go back to original civ)

This seems to make the most sense. When have you ever seen a "conquered" city embrace its captors? Over time as new generations are born, people will start to accept the new regime as long as they are able to meet the peoples expectations of happiness.