03-06-2001 01:23									#1
	Radar Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I don't think anything has been mentioned about radar being implemented in Civ III. I really think the implementation of radar would really make wars in the latter part of the game a lot more interesting. If you didn't have radar you would be subdued to a lot of unnoticed attacks. If you did have radar obviously you would be able to see the coming of attacks. I really wish radar would be added to Civ III.

	03-06-2001 01:43									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

No Radar? That is discouraging. I guess it is back to having units sleeping everywhere just waiting to get attacked to tell us where the enemy is coming from.

	03-06-2001 05:21									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Maybe I should have been a little more detailed in my explaining. What I mean is that a city could build radar as a city improvement. What it would do is increase the site of seeing untis from just being the city borders to one more square out. Understand?

	03-06-2001 06:35									#4
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Actually, radar has been mentioned, by me, it was a while back...lets see, I think in december 2000. anyway, it has been mentioned, and I think it is a great idea, in fact, I think if firaxis wants civ3's combat to be realistic (especially naval combat), then radar is a must, if implemented correctly that is. when I first suggested it, I only got a couple replies, and those that did reply, said it was a dumb stupid idea.

well, i just think it is a grande idea.

look up my old thread, it is RADAR, it will probably be back a LLLOOONNGG way back, but you may get something out of it, i posted every detail in it about my idea.

	03-06-2001 07:22									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I liked the way CTP and CTPII handeled the radar idea. I hope that Sid does somethine similar for Civ3. I'm tired of suprise attacks.

	03-06-2001 07:26									#6
	Tired of ads?

Gee - who would have thought that suprise attacks would be part of warfare??

By the way, I see very little difference between your avatar and a Neo-Nazi avatar.

	03-06-2001 17:03									#7
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Radar is one of those minor things that you expect to be in the game...and don't notice until its not there

I would assume it will be there in some form , but then again I shouldn't assume.

	04-06-2001 07:55									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Mr. Fun it's very unlikely now a days to have surprise attacks with all the radar. I think radar should come out with maybe raido. Surprise attacks are very difficult to accomplish. As they should be in Civ III as well. Plus I don't really like having 8 thousand English ships stationed right next to my cities in the water without me knowing. You probably say then put your ships out there, I say I don't like to have revolutions because of unhappiness from my units out of the city.

	04-06-2001 10:51									#9
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Did i miss something? Whats the map for? And whats the purpose of stealth? Sure their should be a radar against stealth, but how can you create surprise attacks without using stealth technology? I'm confused.

	04-06-2001 17:19									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by MrFun By the way, I see very little difference between your avatar and a Neo-Nazi avatar.

And people see your avatar as a disgusting example of people's private lives being shoved down their throats. Stop playing Thought Police after a session of sensitivity training. His avatar has been used a state flag and on top of the Dukes of Hazzard car, big freaken deal. Freedom of speech means putting up with everything, not just what you approve of.



About radar, I'd like to keep in minimal. At most an expandsion of modern (ground) units visibility to two squares, but I don't want to be able to see every opposing civ units movement in the end-game, imagine how long that would take. I also, as mentioned earlier, think it would take away from the surprises of the game (assuming the AI will be capable of surprising human players)

	04-06-2001 20:38									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yeah - a flag that represents a past, long-dead regime that was based on convictions of white supremacy and slavery (yes, northern states were almost as bad too).

Maybe we should sympathize with those who reminscence about the "lost, gloriful days" of Nazi Germany too. After all, the poor Nazis were simply fighting for the sovereignty of Germany -- let's not focus too much on the Holocaust -- minor incident.

There is a difference between my avatar and a neo-Confederate or neo-Nazi avatar. Some people may not approve mine, but the ones I express opposition to are symbols of hate and violence.

Yes, there are people who strongly disapprove my avatar, but my avatar is not a symbol of hate or violence.
get a clue

	04-06-2001 21:56									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

i think that radar should probably be tile improvements that work like sensors in SMAC, however i think that stealth units should be completely immune to radar

MrFun

now as far as i remember it's not illegal to be either a neonazi or a neoconfederate (at least not in the usa) so even if civpatriot was a neo nazi...big deal, he has his right to believe in what he wants as long as he doesn't harm others

also the conderacy was no nazi germany...the nazi were a genocidal bunch of meglomaniacs (as were the Soviets under stalin...how in the world did he get away all of his murders and most people don't consider him even as evil as hitler?)

the confederates most horrible crime was to support an economic system based around the exploitation of one race

yes slavery is wrong but it does not compare to genocide!

also in the state which i live in homosexual acts (sodomy for one)are illegal while displaying the confederate flag is perfectly legal...MANY people in my country actually believe that homosexuality is an abomination in the face of the christian god, and would rate this defiance of the almighty as a much worse offense to mankind than slavery

i do not know of many people today even amongst those who display the confederate flag really advocate a return to economic slavery; white supreamcy is a flawed belief in my opinion that can be overcame by education and just being exposed to other cultures

i am an athiest (who just happens to live in the bible belt...i bet you haven't even heard of the tabernacle or pentacostal churchs), i think it's ok to love whoever you want to reguardless of what gender they happen to be, and i think if be bo and luke duke want to cruise in the general lee that's fine too...

however i really get mad when people whether it be nazis, leftist, or moderates who want to protect the youth try to enslave people either through legislation or litigation...this to me is a return to slavery

i'm a vegitarian and my grandfather happens to be a chicken fighter...i think it is a complete waste of time and an all together stupid sport...however chicken fighting is illegal and congress wants to make it a FELONY to fight chickens...just recently my grandfather got a misdemenor for crulety to animals...i completely disagree with this because all of the chicken fighters in america added together do not kill or maim as many chickens in an entire year as what WAMPLER'S TYSON'S and many other large scale industrial chicken processors kill in one day...iirc the chicken industry kills three million chickens a day...my grandfather fights about thirty chickens a year...my grandfather's fighting chickens live on a large farm all with a coop to themselves and the hens and didis (baby chickens) have the run of the entire farm...chickens in an industrial chicken facility have their beaks cut off so they wont peck each other to death because they are basically on top of each other...one day at a kfc (kentucky fried chicken) one of the employees started yelling at my grandfather after he told her he was a chicken fighter (he had an entry number on his back and she asked what it was for) even though she works in a place that is all about killing chickens...that is hypocracy plain and simple

people need to keep their mouths shut and not try to dictate their standards on others; when they don't it really offends many people (like me)

civpatriot was neither impolite nor did he make any statements advocating slavery or white supreamcy...i find many more people on this forum much less polite than that one post of his...he is displaying a legitamate state flag (unless they have changed it by now) and for all i know he could be 12 and just found the icon for his state's flag and not even really know what the confederate flag stands for

you could have sent him a private message first discussing with him your objections to his avatar, but instead it seems like you just lashed out at him

it takes alot to offend me, and while i personally do not find your avatar offensive i'm sure that there are a few who do find it offensive...there are probably a few people who find my avatar offensive...but we all need to get over it, if seeing a tiny icon of a state flag that contains a symbol of a long dead rebellious movement from another country prevents you from enjoying this forum then you really need to calm down some MrFun

i have posted here for quite a long time and this is the first time that i have seen civpatriot...so it's not like he's being overly blantant about his avatar or anything

so in closing...lets try to focus on civ3 and not avatars in this forum, because i am sure that each and everyone of us can offend someone with at least one of the beliefs we hold

	04-06-2001 22:02									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I do have a clue and believe that not allowing all beliefs whether you apporve are not is bull****. I'm tired of liberal pc bull**** that says anything that might have had racism/intolerance must be eliminated. If that was true the US flag would have been banned long ago for its use as a rallying cry in Manifest Destiny against the Plains Indians.

To a lot of people the Confederate flag is not a symbol of hate but a symbol of southern culture and a struggle for the regional/states rights. The civil war did not start over slavery but instead evolved into one.

Because some groups of people have taken a symbol and warped its original basis does not mean that some people do not have the right to display it.

Your avatar to some is a symbol of immorallity and sickening depravity, yet because gay/lesbian rights is a pc rallying cry, it cannot in any way be denied without cries of freedom of speech, the same rallying cry that is ignored over the Confederate flag.

My own views are that the Confederate flag is a symbol of hate and oppression, but that does not mean it should be banned or denied display. My view of your picture is one of disgust and one of the main reasons I turned off avatars, because I think if you want to see two guys getting frisky, do it in your own room, but do I think it should be denied display, no, you have the same right those showing the Confederate flag do, we both live under the same Bill of Rights, one that covers all, not selectively applied. Try opening your eyes, instead of only seeing what you want to.

	04-06-2001 22:59									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I agree that Stealth should be deceptable to radar. But if you have a big battleship right next to somebody's city borders (that city has radar) the battleship should be able to be seen. Only if the battleship is very close to the city borders maybe one or two squares away.

	04-06-2001 23:35									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

You guys are sooo right -- having an avatar that shows affection between two people is a symbol of hatred and violence just like a neo-Confederate avatar is.

Thank you for explaining how an avatar showing affection between two people is a symbol of hatred just like the neo-Confederate avatar that I dislike.

And silly me -- Confederates soldiers should be honored in our memory for fighting for "states" rights. We should also honor the Nazis for fighting for Germany's rights.

Anyway, end of this topic -- I stated my opinion, and then people drew this out into an entire discussion.

	05-06-2001 08:16									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

How are surprise attacks possible without stealth technology?

There was that movie that was in theaters recently, I forgot what it was called.

Gary

	05-06-2001 09:38									#17
	Got spare money?

How do you think the attack on Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack? The Americans thought that the Japanesse planes were B-17's coming in from the mainland on the radar. I didn't word that very well but who cares. If they would have payed more attention to their radar the attack wouldn't have been as severe.

	05-06-2001 09:46									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by TechWins If they would have payed more attention to their radar the attack wouldn't have been as severe.

The radar wasn't even fully operational, it was untried technology (to the USN in the Pacific that is, the British and Germans had already discovered its usefullness), limited range, and not well understood by anyone in command until the war proved its usefullness. Even if the radar operators were listened to, it probably would've been hours before anyone high enough got word of its findings, in other words, after the attack was already under way.

	14-06-2001 02:41									#19
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bump

	14-06-2001 02:46									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

oh and about sodomy.

in many of the early states founded by religious fanatics and whatnot, anything except for missionary style is illegal under grounds of sodomy.

if you are confused about what missionary style, or any act of sodomy is, please send me a video camera and carmen electra.

thank you.

	14-06-2001 05:31									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by MrFun You guys are sooo right -- having an avatar that shows affection between two people is a symbol of hatred and violence just like a neo-Confederate avatar is. Thank you for explaining how an avatar showing affection between two people is a symbol of hatred just like the neo-Confederate avatar that I dislike. And silly me -- Confederates soldiers should be honored in our memory for fighting for "states" rights. We should also honor the Nazis for fighting for Germany's rights. Anyway, end of this topic -- I stated my opinion, and then people drew this out into an entire discussion.

Okay, listen:

A) the Swastika is the Ancient Greek symbol of eternity. Not a symbol of evil.
B) at the start of the civil war, there was slavery on both sides. It was an economic war. The emancipation proclamation doesn't even free slaves in the northern states, just slaves in "states rebelling". The slavery idea in the confederate flag was added much later, incorrectly.
C) Not all nazis were evil. They didn't have much of a choice, many (most) didn't even know the extent of what was going on with the Jews. Hitler was evil, sure. A whole pile of others. But don't downplay that they were Germans who sacrificed their lives to what appeared to be an honourable cause. They did not KNOW. I'm sure people would want to strangle you for saying that Nazi's should not be honoured. Before Hitler, the party was basically the same as the American Democrats or the Canadian Liberals.

There is a true story, about a Nazi soldier and a Jewish woman she was ordered to torture, and eventually kill. The camp was conquered before that time. Now they understand, and they travel TOGETHER and teach tolerance. One was tortured and saw friends killed by another, the other was a brutal killer and torturer, and they're friends now. Don't underestimate the situation.

Now, Is anybody going to complain if I put up a Canadian flag that I drew long ago, even though I suck at drawing and the maple leaf therefore (unintentionally) looks like a cannabis leaf?

	14-06-2001 06:46									#22
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Builds Adv. Rader with commander

Builds Big Bertha

Shells Mr. FUN

Start another thread for this please...


Anyway, I think radar would be a nice addition to Civ 3. Not so much as sight ranger enhancers but something that affects combat. Besides, I don't think radar can help anyone find that Mech Inf hiding in a forest.

	23-06-2001 08:53									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Here it is. See I posted this thread on June 2nd. I didn't mean to come off as a jackass, sorry if it sounded like it.

	23-06-2001 10:24									#24
	Increase the size of your Attachments

There are things that called strategic surprises and tactical surprises. Strategic surprises are attacks that are completely unexpected, thus your forces will be totally out of position to defend against such an attack. A classical example is Germany's bypassing of the Maginot line.

After that said, how would radar help you when the game turn is one year long?

	23-06-2001 10:40									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

gee a discussion on radar turned into quite a hot argument on gay right of speech versus confederate right of speeach...

Seems the PC people won thru with telling us all to live and let live....

	23-06-2001 12:06									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well I think that Radar should be a city improvement AND a tile improvement, a "radar station" as an tile improvement, AND a city thingamajig. Like the Geo Synchronous Survey Pods and the Sensor Arrays in SMAC. I think they should have much farthur range though, because on sea Cruisers can move 6/turn, and a sensor only lets you see 2 sqaures out. How is that useful??? I think that the range of radar should definitly be expanded.