03-06-2001 04:30									#1
	Wonder, who build them, you or the AI? Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't believed anyone has touch on this yet. In CTP 1 & 2, the first Civ to make a discovery that allow a wonder to be built, can start building it.
In Civ 2, all of the AIs can make the discovery that allow a wonder to be built, but cannot start to build it until you the human make the necessary discovery.
So what do all of you think, should we the human have all of changes to build first, or should the AI be allow to build wonder when they make the necessary discovery?

Last edited by on 03-06-2001 at 04:38

	03-06-2001 04:41									#2
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quote: In Civ 2, all of the AIs can make the discovery that allow a wonder to be built, but cannot start to build it until you the human make the necessary discovery.

not true. the AI almost always starts the hanging gardens before i get pottery whenever i play on diety

	03-06-2001 04:47									#3
	AI wonders Tired of ads?

What always ticked me off was that after I built the Manhattan project in Civ 2 any civilisation could start building nuclear weapons. After I did all the work . . .
I hope in Civ 3 the AIs will have to do their own work to get nuclear technology.

	03-06-2001 05:05									#4
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OK. However I just finnish a game on Warlord today and the AI had to wait for me.

	03-06-2001 06:14									#5
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They didn't have to wait, they were just always behind you because warlord is easy.

Shoeless

	03-06-2001 07:02									#6
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In Alpha Centauri on the first two levels the AI had to wait until the human player got the technology to build the wonder before they could start building it, even if they already had the technology, but I don't think this was in Civ2. I think it should be implemented in Civ3, but only for the easiest level.

	03-06-2001 14:09									#7
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Yes but if they had to wait for you in the higher levels that would be LAME and unrealistic. That's part of what pissed me off about the games is when the civs kept getting the wonders done just before I could. Of course when I smoke them in the end it feels better but hey.

	03-06-2001 14:43									#8
	Re: AI wonders Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Anatolia What always ticked me off was that after I built the Manhattan project in Civ 2 any civilisation could start building nuclear weapons. After I did all the work . . . I hope in Civ 3 the AIs will have to do their own work to get nuclear technology.

I think it will be a minor Wonder, that all civs have to build.

	03-06-2001 16:30									#9
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First in first served...seems fair to me.

	03-06-2001 22:27									#10
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In Civilization 2, the AI often start building a wonder BEFORE I get the apropriate technology to do so (except in the case of The Manhattan Project). The Manhattan Project will be a minor wonder in Civilization 3 (everyone has to build it to be able to produce nuclear weapons).

In Alpha Centauri this is also true. I've often experienced that the AI start building a wonder before I have the technology to do so.

If you're always playing on the easier difficulty-levels, it's not strange that the AI has to wait for the human-player to get the apropriate technology, because they will wait quite some time before they start building a wonder, besides you're usually much more technologically advanced than the AI.

	03-06-2001 23:53									#11
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One thing I'm irritated on, at the harder levels, is that you get information on whatever civ is producing a wonder. I like Civ I more as nothing were said at any level of difficulty. The AI could build a wonder without you notice anything.
I suggest that you need an embassy to be able to know what wonder(s) a civ is constructing.

	04-06-2001 01:28									#12
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in civ 1, the AI didnt build wonders, they were "given" them. Sid admitted that in the civ 2 manual.

"The AI players now have to build wonders like everyone else"

	04-06-2001 01:33									#13
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX in civ 1, the AI didnt build wonders, they were "given" them. Sid admitted that in the civ 2 manual. "The AI players now have to build wonders like everyone else"

That's not the point. The point is that I want't the messages as "Egyptians have undertakenen a great Project: Pryramids" removed in hard levels.

	04-06-2001 01:41									#14
	Re: Wonder, who build them, you or the AI? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by joseph1944 In Civ 2, all of the AIs can make the discovery that allow a wonder to be built, but cannot start to build it until you the human make the necessary discovery.

Absolutely not true. Can't tell you how many times the computer's built Sun Tzu while I didn't have feudalism.

	05-06-2001 10:06									#15
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Maybe you should stop playing on Chieftain Joseph. Start trying the harder levels.

	06-06-2001 05:33									#16
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins Maybe you should stop playing on Chieftain Joseph. Start trying the harder levels.

It would be hard for me to do that. One I will admit that I'm not the greatest player in the word. However I do not like to loose in anything, at anytime, to anyone. I will not play MP for that reason. Also I play to have fun and not be upset because I lost. If you knew me, you might understand. I came from a time when loosing was not a thing to do. I join the US Navy in 62, and all of my Petty Offices were in their middle to late 30 and was in the Navy for more than 16 years. That means that some of them saw action in Korea. Our two CO. and XO. were WWII vets. We were taught to win only. In 65 I went to work at Mare Island Naval Shipyard and guess what, if we lost there, men could die just like those poor Russian Sailor a few month ago. My job at the yard said that I had to be one of the best and I did OK.
I have tried other level from time to time but normally loose, so now I do not play them.

	13-06-2001 00:46									#17
	Remove this text

When I built wonders in Civ 2, I often use the second function of the caravan - to help build wonders. I think with the new trade system in Civ 3 there is no unit "caravan".
Is there any unit which will replace the function of the caravan?

	13-06-2001 00:52									#18
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joseph, it appears in your last post you have answered you own question. Some fundamental rules of the game changes as you progress through the 7 difficulty levels.

	13-06-2001 00:58									#19
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I didn't even know that. What else actually changes, other than the AI getting cheaper stuff?

	13-06-2001 01:24									#20
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1. AI cheats more (free units/advances/buildings)
   
2. Unhippiness increases (Chieftan, 3 units in a monarchy city keeps em happy till 8, diety 5)
   
3. More Corruption/waste
   
4. AI "hates" humans, often, if not always ally against them
   
5. your units lose more (i can recall a barbarian horseman taking out a few archers)
   
6. tech stagnation
   
7. tech "blocking" (at chieftan->prince it does not occur)
   
8. AI uses better tactics, instead of throwing units at you they may pillage things and whatnot
   

	13-06-2001 01:43									#21
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I think tech "blocking" as you put it occurs on Prince as well, if you mean what I think you do. I can distinctly remember not being able to get advances I should have been able to when I played Prince. Note: Prince is fun because it's the last level you don't really have to worry about unhappiness.

	13-06-2001 14:37									#22
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Joseph,

I think you should play on the King level. IIRC, at that level you and all the computer players are on equal footing.

	13-06-2001 14:50									#23
	Re: Wonder, who build them, you or the AI? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by joseph1944 In Civ 2, all of the AIs can make the discovery that allow a wonder to be built, but cannot start to build it until you the human make the necessary discovery.

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX not true. the AI almost always starts the hanging gardens before i get pottery whenever i play on diety

Actually it is difficulty-level dependent. On the lower difficulty levels the AI has to wait until you have discovered the advance before it can start building. On higher difficulty levels, this restriction does not apply.

I don't see any problem with notification that another nation has started building a wonder either, gives other nations a bit of notice and allows them to get their arse into gear

	14-06-2001 09:51									#24
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX Unhippiness increases

I knew there was a reason why I always played deity. Less hippies.

Gramphos-

quote: One thing I'm irritated on, at the harder levels, is that you get information on whatever civ is producing a wonder. I like Civ I more as nothing were said at any level of difficulty. The AI could build a wonder without you notice anything. I suggest that you need an embassy to be able to know what wonder(s) a civ is constructing.

Think of it as travelers reporting another nation undertaking a massive project that is well-known to their public.

	14-06-2001 10:52									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Theben Think of it as travelers reporting another nation undertaking a massive project that is well-known to their public.

In one turn. I you don't even know that that civ exists. No you should need embassies to get the information immediately. Anyway you should get the information after a while (depending on how advance the travel of you and the civ constructing the Wonder is.

	14-06-2001 14:12									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos In one turn. I you don't even know that that civ exists. No you should need embassies to get the information immediately. Anyway you should get the information after a while (depending on how advance the travel of you and the civ constructing the Wonder is.

Even in the ancient world, news kind of trickles around. If some very obscure civilisation remains obscure, no one will know of it's existance. If it does something of interest, eg, a very large and prosperous city for it's day or a wonder, news will spread.

Ask yourself this question. If you don't know if he has started building, how will you know he has completed it so you end your construction of the project yourself? Think about it like that...

	14-06-2001 17:29									#27
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in MP it doesnt tell you when the human players start building it ,, so i agree dont tell me when the Ai starts..