04-06-2001 03:40									#1
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As of this moment i have suspended the formation of my "Crime in Michigan" scenario because of lack of ideas,units and frankly the effort that i needed. I have started many a scenario and then given up halfway through and i am determined not to do it with this one.
This scenario is based on the book "Sword Point" By Harold Coyle and it depicts the usual fictional battle between Russia and NATO but this time its over in Iran because the Soviets are trying to nick the opil and the americans dont like that. Gets all out of control etc in short big battle. so i need to know if anyone has a map of Iran and surrounding countries. Ie Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lower USSR around the presian gulf area in fact.
I could also use some help so what military the Iranian Air force and Army had in the 1985-88 time period and how much they had. I know the Soviets and the USA units of that time and i think i know Iraqs air force and army pretty well as well but any help would be appreciated. this ones for real this time so watch out!

for the civs i was thinking:

USA/NATO
USSR
Iran
Iraq
Neutrals

but any suggestions otherwise iwill go ahead with that

	04-06-2001 04:15									#2
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Off the top of my head, The Iranians operated the following:
F-4 Phantom
F-5 Tiger
F-14 Tomcat
J-7 Fishbed
Q-5 Fantan
AH-1 Cobra
P3 Orion

Basically, the Iranians started off with their airforce fully equiped with American aircraft, and as the Iran-Iraq war continued bought Chinese aircraft to make good the losses of the American aircraft

This site has the current strength of the Iranian Air Force: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~bjordan/airforce37.html

And this site has a good history of the Iran-Iraq war: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/war/iran-iraq.htm

Last edited by Case on 04-06-2001 at 09:05

	04-06-2001 06:15									#3
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This sounds cool. For civs I suggest the following.

Americans and Allies
Soviets
Chinese
Iranians
Iraqis
Afghans
Pakistanis

The other inconsequential nations like Armenia, Azerbaijan, Syria, Turkey and Saudi Arabia can be filled in using barbarian cities. Reinforcements from those nations to Allied (American) bases can be done using the various triggers in the events.

Pakistan had nukes so they are an essential part of the game. Afghanistan would provide a unique civ to play. China is essential as an ally to the USSR and for it's own expansionistic ambitions in the area. Of course the other players; Iran, Iraq and the Americans, are obvious necessities.

Considering that if Pakistan were to enter such a war either on the side of Afghanistan or Iran, India would be drawn into the war. That could be represented by the appearence of barbarian Indian units appearing on the far eastern edge of the map.

The map itself shold extend into the CIS, probably just short of the northern borders of Kazakhstan, east to the edge of Kashmir and Jammu, west to the Iraq's western borders and south to the tip of Qatar (Bahrain would function as the American homebase).

Overall this sounds very cool. Can't wait to see it come out for playtesting.

	04-06-2001 08:21									#4
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WarViod, you weren't paying attention , it's during 85-88. So the only civs should be the ones Grothgar mentioned, plus probably some Afghan rebels.

	04-06-2001 11:31									#5
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As for units, I don't know how many are from the 80s, but at http://www.fas.org/man/index.html there are some Iranian and Iraqi equipments under the ROW listings.

	04-06-2001 15:54									#6
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The Civs i will be using are as follows.

USA/NATO
because in this battle the USA put in all the equipment apart from the 7th RTR from britain and a division of french tanks so most of the units will be american
USSR
Iran
Iraq
Afghanistan and Pakistan (Represented by barbarians)
Neutrals (Turkey, Kuwait)

So there will be four playable civs in this scenario.

The USSR will probably be the easiets because of the ease of supply they managed in the book and i will represent this.
Then probably the USA will be the next difficult because they will only be recieving units by events to represent the forces that they put into the battle so youll have to carefull how you expend them
Then Iraq because your only at war with iran at the start but on the minus side you have inferior tanks and everything else.
Then Iran because you are at war with USSR,USA and Iraq at the start. Iraq wont be a problem but the two big boys will.

I think i have found a map but i am having trouble sorting out the scale. The map is from the scenario "The Iranians" by Stefan Hartel but to be honest its a bit wierd but at the moment its the only map i have for that area to use.

Thanx case i was thinking along the same lines for the Iranian Air Force nice to have it confirmed

	05-06-2001 17:37									#7
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Grothgar,

Are you still playing your PBEM games, with all this design stuff going on? 'Cos you haven't moved in the StC! game for five days now...

John

	05-06-2001 21:00									#8
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As far as i know i havent recieved the saved game because as soon as i get it i send it on. so i dont know whats up with my mail or something but i havent recieved it. otherwise its the first thing i do. And it doesnt take that long to play the turn anyway so my designing couldnt get in the way. I have no idea

	05-06-2001 21:46									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Grothgar As far as i know i havent recieved the saved game because as soon as i get it i send it on. so i dont know whats up with my mail or something but i havent recieved it. otherwise its the first thing i do. And it doesnt take that long to play the turn anyway so my designing couldnt get in the way. I have no idea

Well I am pretty sure I sent it, plus I attached it in the thread, I will mail it to you again.
In the future check the thread whenever it is updated and you wont miss your turn even if I forget to mail you.

	06-06-2001 01:29									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Grothgar The Civs i will be using are as follows. USA/NATO USSR Iran Iraq Afghanistan and Pakistan (Represented by barbarians) Neutrals (Turkey, Kuwait) So there will be four playable civs in this scenario.

I'd strongly recomend that you don't use barbarians. If you use barbarians to represent a civ, all the other civs are constantly at war with it (and place a high priority on attacking it), and the human player has to sit through it moving ALL its units.

Instead, I recomend that you include Afganistan as part of the USSR and Pakistan as a neutral nation.

	06-06-2001 12:21									#11
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Thanx Case i hadnt considered that but i cant include Afghanistan in the USSR after all the did kick the russians as. But i will think about having Pakistan as neutrals

	25-11-2001 03:04									#12
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did this get tossed aside? i hope not...

	25-11-2001 09:42									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Grothgar Thanx Case i hadnt considered that but i cant include Afghanistan in the USSR after all the did kick the russians as. But i will think about having Pakistan as neutrals

Well having the USSR in control of the Afghan cities wouldn't be a problem, since they held the cities, but the guerilla warriors from the mountains, and with all the US supplies (the largest clandestine operation in history) managed to drive them out. So barbs could be Afghan rebels, and the Soviets would be the only ones in the area so they'd fight.
I would have Pakistan and Iraq allied with US, since Pakistan was in actuality and Iraq and the US were more or less silent partners, with the US hushing up the UN about its human rights record and use of chemical warfare, as well as pushing France to arm them, and with Iraq in effect fighting a proxy was against Iran. Perhaps even give US bases in both of these countries...

That is of course if all this is still going on

	26-11-2001 05:06									#14
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As I was saying on the *other* site, I think that Grothgar has ceased work on this. Thought in light of Mercators great map of the area maybe things will start up again

(BTW Grothgar, I'm looking forward to that MP WW2 in the pacific scenario [*hint* *hint* ])

	26-11-2001 09:56									#15
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower did this get tossed aside? i hope not...

Darnit! When I saw this back up I thought he'd started working on it again.
Naaah ... he's probably still too busy delaying the release of Stalingrad ...

	26-11-2001 13:06									#16
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Both the scenarios are on hold for the moment. I havent cancelled either and the only parts i need to do in each scenario is to do the unit placements and the city improvements. The most boring part. I will endevour to get up the enthusiasm to attempt this but when i think of it the desire just dies. Bear with me for the moment.

	27-11-2001 07:18									#17
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Add the Canadians just for the hell of it!