10-06-2000 05:04									#1
	"White Civs" and other game starters Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I hope that someone more informed than I can help answer this question.

I've seen it posted on some forums before that the "White" civs, to start the game, i.e. Romans, Russians, and Celts, have an advantage over the others. Is this true, and, if so, what are the advantages?

Also, under what circumstances does the game give you two settlers to start out?

	10-06-2000 05:53									#2
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White Civs - They have the advantage of starting the game. They are the first ones who can make their moves every game year. The advantages are minor, not comparabale at all with beginning in, say, chess. Really, if for winning this game people have to rely on trivialities like this...
One thing to watch out for though. If more than one Civ will land on AC in the same year, the 'highest' colour (= the one highest on foreign defence list) gets there first.

Two settlers - I don't really know the ins and outs of this. As far as I know, it has got to do with the proximity of your opponents and the available land mass. The game will try to compensate you for the toughness of your starting position. Same goes for the amount of tech you begin the game with. On deity, you always get two settlers.

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Ceterum censeo Romanem esse delendam.

	12-06-2000 13:27									#3
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I believe that you get two settlers on deity - and not otherwise.


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	12-06-2000 15:13									#4
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I play at King level, and have gotten two settlers on several occasions; I think I also had them at Prince level.

	12-06-2000 16:28									#5
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In both SP and MP, white does indeed have it's advantages. Yes, at Deity, you always get two settlers, no matter what color you choose. At lower levels, it's a coin flip

Yes, your ship lands first if... but also, you get first crack at any exposed barbarian king. In addition, it seems that you usually get a better starting location. The computer lays the civs onto the blank map in the turn order. The purple civ usually gets a bad starting position.

The one disadvantage is if you are playing MP. If you don't go first, you always get a chance to react to barbarians that appear out of nowhere... a chance to fast buy a unit where you might need it... the white civ (or the civ going first if white isn't selected) does not have time for this.

	12-06-2000 16:46									#6
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Ming - on the other hand, the white player has the AI (barb) turn to rushbuild units in response to the last human player. This gives you a better chance to react to sneak attacks by a human.

	12-06-2000 17:23									#7
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That's assuming the Barb turn takes long enough for you to actually do something without screwing it up. That is not always the case.

	12-06-2000 17:31									#8
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A very naive question - I haven't yet played MP (only very frustrated hotseat) do I assume from what you guys have been saying that you are able to perform at least some activities whilst it is not your 'turn'?


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	12-06-2000 17:32									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Ming - true, the barb turn is usually very short. In my current game, though, it was just long enough to save my bacon.

SG1 - you can do any city maintenance during someone else's turn (including the computer). This includes disbanding units, selling improvements, rushbuilding, etc. Rush-built units appear in the city at the beginning of your next turn. So if you attack someone in MP, it's best to finish the job during your own turn or the reinforcements will appear in a hurry!

(Edited to respond to SG1)

[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited June 12, 2000).]

	12-06-2000 17:59									#10
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Yes, it's always an good when you're attacking the person that moves next. Hold your attack till the end of the turn, attack quickly and hit the end turn. It minimizes his ability to respond. Sometimes if it's on surprise and few units are involved (and you're the host so there is no lag time problems) they can't react fast enough to rush anything.

RAH

	13-06-2000 00:25									#11
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In one of the early diplo games, the difference between winning and losing came down to who got to move first (landing on A/C). Don't underestimate it.

On a more basic level, it seems to me that the white shield civ gets the larger initial land area. Too many 4 player games seem to show that the "safe" land area diminishes as you move down the color chart.

	13-06-2000 02:23									#12
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I still don't think that the advantages of white should be exaggerated. Save for the starting position and AC. Firstly, it is a matter of a 'sliding scale', each next Civ has a disadvantage over the previous. It is not a matter of white having a favoured position over all the rest, but of each higher colour having a slight advantage over all the next ones. Secondly, the turns of each player have a more profound effect than game turns do. For example, if blue, the colour after white, messes up big time, then every Civ has a chance to benefit, with the white Civ coming in only last in this example. Thirdly, the advantage decreases over time. Being one step ahead is more important after twenty turns than after two-hundred turns.

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Ceterum censeo Romanem esse delendam.

	13-06-2000 18:12									#13
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You are correct Hasdrubal that the order of turns become relative once the game has started. But, there is still one exception besides landing on AC... And that's first crack at exposed barbarian kings. I can't tell you how many times I've missed a king, because I went second, and the person with the white civ got first crack at him...