05-06-2001 12:08									#1
	Request for a New Scenario Full PM-box? Change here!

I've scanned the existing scenarios and noticed one I would love to see (I dont know how to make scenarios ). Anyone ever play the old Avalon Hill game called "Jutland"? It's a WWI naval battle between the Germans and British off the western Danish coast.
There dont seem to be any scenarios for WWI or WWII naval battles, who would like to fill the void?

	05-06-2001 13:05									#2
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It would be nice to see, but given the idiocy of the computer, the simplicity of the Civ 2 combat system, and the restrictions on unit abilities, I should say it would be nice to see Civ be able to do this -at least on close-in, tactical level.

However, if you were to make it only for multiplayer use, you could make it a little more plausible. But I don't even play MP yet so I'm not about to bother with all that.

	06-06-2001 01:53									#3
	Re: Request for a New Scenario Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker There dont seem to be any scenarios for WWI or WWII naval battles, who would like to fill the void?

I've half finished a scenario about the Battle of the Atlantic in WW2...

	06-06-2001 05:06									#4
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Wow... that actually sounds really interesting but I'm not sure how'd you'd make that work. You'd obviously have to be controlling the Allies right? I don't think the AI could handle convoying or anything like that... But then again, I'm not sure how it could handle wolf pack tactics without creating subs out of nowhere... But whatever. I'd still be interested to see how it turns out.

	06-06-2001 08:33									#5
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Case -

quote: I've half finished a scenario about the Battle of the Atlantic in WW2...

Great news, but will you be focusing on the sub war? That too would fill a gap, but please don't leave out the hunts for the Bismarck, Graf Spee and the battlecruisers. Is there a forum on how to make scenarios?

Eternal -

quote: It would be nice to see, but given the idiocy of the computer, the simplicity of the Civ 2 combat system, and the restrictions on unit abilities, I should say it would be nice to see Civ be able to do this -at least on close-in, tactical level.

Yeah, I'd hate to be cruising along in the Bismarck only to get sunk in a second, lol. Oh wait, the Hood went down almost that fast Oh well, it would still be nice to have scenarios for Jutland and the Atlantic...

	06-06-2001 13:26									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Is there a forum on how to make scenarios?

You are posting in it

	07-06-2001 01:23									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Great news, but will you be focusing on the sub war? That too would fill a gap, but please don't leave out the hunts for the Bismarck, Graf Spee and the battlecruisers.

The scenario is designed to be played as the Germans, who can build submarines, surface warships and a few types of aircraft (JU-88, Stuka and Condor)
Whilst the Allies won't convoy thier ships properly ( ), I have been able to persuade them to sail them from America to Europe (which was harder then it sounds).

	07-06-2001 11:55									#8
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quote: You are posting in it

lol, cool, I plan on making my own but I'm starting with almost no knowledge on how to even start.

That sounds cool, Case, if you need playtesters let me know.

	07-06-2001 15:18									#9
	The Inkling of a scenario Support Apolyton

Hey, I was reading the post a bit earlier, and I am brainstorming on a Jutland scenario. I think it should be called Dreadnaught. Anyway, I need a lot of info on the battle of Jutland. Anyone know of a good book one could probably look up at a local library? I really need class info for both sides. That way I could look up in Jane's fighting ships and decide what the strengths shall be.

Since this will be a battle scenario, there'll be no building extra ships, thats obvious. I'll have to read up on the battle to define the turn parameters. Anyone wish to help. Afterall, I myself am new to this scenario stuff too.

OH, and since I hear people want 'alternative' scenarios, I'm also brainstorming on one I'll call 'County Polotics'. It'll be mainly a trade and terrain improvement game. Its going to be a MP game, preferably for PBEM style. The player gets no offensive units (mabey a 1 at most on one or two) like Deputies, Sheriffs and the like. They'll get a politician on occasion, and I'll have tons of trade units. Lets see, there'll be barbarians (renamed outlaws I guess) like bankrobber, terrorists, postal postal worker, teamsters, etc. If you catch them, they'll turn into a chaingang, a slow settler. Of course you can build workers and later engineers. I could go on and on, but I'm lazy and would rather wait to hear the response. Just remember, I'm still brainstorming on these two babies.

Ioanes

	08-06-2001 11:30									#10
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JMarks, about not allowing new ships, would there be a way to give people the option of having the battle with just the ships originally involved and an option to expand the game to allow further WWI naval warfare? Jutland basicly ended Germany's quest to break England's dominance of the seas, but had the Germans been more successful, naval warfare in WWI would have taken on new parameters. The battle itself would be over so quickly if new ships weren't allowed.

The relative strengths of the ships appear on the ship counters in Avalon Hill's version of the game Jutland. Unfortunately I no longer have the game.

	08-06-2001 14:35									#11
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Sure, you could use multiple events & rules, etc. (two should suffice) and a batch file. If the German player deems Jutland a success, they could load up the new files which would allow them to build ships. You could have that also allow the British to build new ships at a much faster rate than the Germans, so you'd really have to annihilate the Royal Navy at Jutland to stand a chance in the second part of the scenario.

There are a few good maps of the North Sea out there that you can pick up. They'd be good for a scenario like this (as opposed to the entire Atlantic).

Thanks,

JP

	08-06-2001 15:52									#12
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Case, I've also been working on a battle of the atlantic scenario for awhile. I have my hands tied with a sequel/revision to one of my earlier scenarios (not Ansteig folks, don't worry), and thus I don't really have the desire to finish "Wulf Pack".

I hate to see all that work go to waste though, I have the tech tree, map, units section of rules file, and a few units done as well as a horde of ideas. I'd be willing to hand you over my files and let you know my ideas if you'd like.

If you're interested, email me at Vudak@aol.com


JP

	08-06-2001 17:44									#13
	Scale Factor Suffering from ads?

One could do a scenario a multitude of ways. The question is, whats the scale? One could do a scale of very small, with turn incriments of 15 minutes, and a map scale of well, very small, and make it very tactical, and include all the ships involved. And make 'scenarios' based on how well each side did. The Germans still lost the battle even though they sunk more ships than they lost. So as you said it needs to be a pretty good sweep.

Then, on the other hand, one could make a large scale scenario, where the game starts just before the battle of Jutland, with turn frame of a day or two, and a decend map of the North Sea. Technicly ships weren't build very fast and there was a major war still going on in Europe, so a lot of extra ships aren't realistic. If your fleet is wiped out, thats it for your fleet, which is the idea.

Of course one could possibly do them both! Either way it'll take some research. Berserker, if you'd like to e-mail me and we could conference about possibilities and such, my address is JMShrader@aol.com

Ioanes

	11-06-2001 10:45									#14
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JMarks, I'd gladly help. You want me to do unit research?

	11-06-2001 18:30									#15
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Berserker,

Sure, lets start with a simpler battle first. Could you get me unit info on the ships used at the Dogger Bank chase? Great

	12-06-2001 08:39									#16
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Berzerker, sorry if this is sticking my nose in your area, but the following link has a pretty good synopsis of the battle and OOB -- http://www.geocities.com/darrenmilford/dogger.htm.

In short the British had 5 BC's vs 3 BC's and a CA for the Germans. There were also supporting CL's and DD's for both sides. The CA, Blucher, was the weak link for the Germans: too slow and undergunned for a battlecruiser engagement. It was sunk.

Damage control was a major factor. A single hit on a gun turret on the Seydlitz ignited cordite which devastated two entire turrets. The battle was also influenced by a variety of factors including poor visibility at the onset of the action, a false periscope sighting that hindered British pursuit, compounded by damage to the British flagship that prevented the commander from effectively coordinating the pursuit of the Germans.

I have a book with a table of the ships' armament and speed. If you need it, I'll try to scan it and send it to both of you.

	12-06-2001 12:18									#17
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Boco, feel free to stick your nose in You obviously have extensive knowledge of the battle/ship characteristics.

JMarks, unless Boco wants to add his knowledge, it'll take me a bit to compile stats on the ships. But I'm working on it...

	12-06-2001 13:08									#18
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Ok, I started a new thread with an appropriate title

Last edited by Berzerker on 12-06-2001 at 14:10