05-06-2001 12:21									#1
	When games become work. Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I have just come back from a 2-week business trip to the States, passing through some of the worst parts of the East Coast (Camden in Philadelphia comes to mind). As I spoke with some of the bartenders at an Irish pub in Philly, I couldn't get over the matter-of-fact way in which they said things like:

"Yeah, I made the mistake of walking two blocks in the wrong direction and nearly had my head blown off."

...or...

"That guy deserved to die. He shouldn't have been in that part of town."

...or...

"I could have a gun brought to you within the hour."

Now, it's not like I haven't thought about these issues before, mind you. But this time when I got back from my trip, I found it very hard to post about the number of civs or the kind of unique bonuses or whatever else about Civ3.

And that got me to thinking about why in the first place I ever donated 100s of hours of my free time to helping make The Lists, moderate the forums, etc. Then it struck me that I was simply too uptight. Too uptight about life and, therefore, WAY too uptight about the games that had long been a means toward escaping the grind.

What happens when we begin to analyze and over-analyze the way we relax? Isn't it something like opening Pandora's Box and closing it just before Hope flies out? What I mean is, isn't part of the magic of the games we once knew as kids NOT knowing or caring that beta testers insisted on a lighter color palette or that Patch 4 was delayed because the French translator caught a bad cold the week before?

I used to just take things as they came, making the best of them, often producing in my mind something far greater than what was actually handed me. How did I ever lose such wisdom? I now advocate so much for the *quality* of my free-time that I spend more time preparing to relax than I actuallly spend relaxing.

Thus, I am endeavoring to become again that stupid kid who opened his mind to the amazement of the game (and life) and filled in the holes with his good will and stunning imagination. I can, after all, still recall the color of Zork and how I so cleverly led a dragon to blow fire against his own reflection in wall of ice. So:

I will rarely visit forums.

I will ignore patch schedules.

I will not hang on every decision.

I will put the 'play' back in playing games.

And if this means I become an ignorant fool, so be it. An ignorant, relaxed and thoroughly entertained fool is perhaps a very wise man indeed.

	05-06-2001 12:27									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well I agree with everything you said, and I too believe life is meant to be lived, not worried over, but being they're dumb enough to give me an internet connection at work, I'll pass my time away procrastinating and being paid on the Apolyton forums debating every perceived idiosyncracy of a game I won't actually have for another 6 months (if I'm lucky).

	05-06-2001 12:29									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

when i saw the title of the thread i thought you were going to talk about settlers....

	05-06-2001 12:57									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

In my real world I deal with obnoxious, moody sisters, smarmy step-mothers, distrought & tempermental employees, managers who're ready to hand over their keys to the store, constant understaffing, and customers who- rightly so- don't give a **** about the preceeding. Quite honestly I go to work, deal with my daily BS, come home, plop down in front of the computer and surf away to Apolyton. Then once I'm done I make my other checks around the Net and then goto sleep- and wake up in time to start all over again. But while I'm at Apolyon, I can *pretend* that I'm with a large group of friends who all know me and I know them, even though in the back of my mind I know it's a lie. But to me, that's where the "ignorant, relaxed and thoroughly entertained fool" comes in.

Don't stay away too long.

	05-06-2001 13:21									#5
	Why am I having problems beliving this? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yin,
this is a big horseload of...

By reading between the lines one understands that the reason for you going silent isn't the need the rediscover yourself, it's the need to be quite sure you don't tell any secrets by misstake.

My plea is: make it a worthwile game for us all


Disclaimer: This message is a joke.
(Currently I see ghosts everywere, so this reasoning suonds very good to me.)

Sorry Yin, no offence. I do hope you'll be back some day.

	05-06-2001 15:44									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I certainly agree that spending time discussing the faults of a game after it has been released can cause minor irritation to become immense dissatisfaction very quickly. Everyone points out all the little things that you hadn't yet noticed so you become hyper sensitised to them and it ruins your enjoyment. The same can happen to lesser extent when over analysing the small details of "fact" released in reviews and news about a developing game. However I find the time spent creatively trying to come up with new ideas is very pleasurable and rewarding. That is why I spend all my free time here, not over in the CtP2 forums

	05-06-2001 23:04									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I thought the same thing MarkG.

	06-06-2001 01:28									#8
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Yin26 And that got me to thinking about why in the first place I ever donated 100s of hours of my free time to helping make The Lists, moderate the forums, etc. Then it struck me that I was simply too uptight. Too uptight about life and, therefore, WAY too uptight about the games that had long been a means toward escaping the grind.

I remember a story about a jew who had experienced the nazi concentrations-camps, first hand. After the war, he asked himself what he was suppose to do the rest of his life, besides working for rent & food. After a while, an old friend persuaded him to take up a nice distracting hobby, in order to disperse his moody thoughts & meet other people. Finally, he joined a stamp-collecting club, of all things. One could argue:

Why the heck should a guy like that ever allow himself to be so mentally occupied (= "uptight") about something so trivial and "unimportant" as collecting & exchanging small coloured scap of papers, with dry glue on one side?

The answer is:
Its NOT primarily about collecting & exchanging physical stamps. Its instead about alowing oneself the luxury of juggling the mind somewhat with a nice distracting "unimportant" hobby & meeting similar people, whilst doing it.

Its exactly the same thing when we "Civ-nerds" post replies here at apolyton.

The only difference is that we (thanks to the internet) can share ideas about a highly specialized & ridiculously non-serious subject as the Civ-3 development, without any physical boundaries. Nothing more then your own continued enjoyment, forces us come here. Isnt that great?

quote: Originally posted by Theben But while I'm at Apolyon, I can *pretend* that I'm with a large group of friends who all know me and I know them, even though in the back of my mind I know it's a lie.

What do you mean, by "lie"? Would it be more "true" and "real" if we all knew each other inside out, as old time friends sharing a common life-history?
Well, in some ways it would, perhaps. But also remember; Nobody is perfect - especially not after knowing this or that person for years. We all have our pluses and minuses. The great thing about internet-forums is that you can "tap into it" whenever YOU like - and within subjects that YOU enjoy talking about.

But, of course: Too much and too little destroys everything. Just as summer becomes more appreciated if one, by contrast, regurlary experience winter (and vice verca) - the same way: Sitting behind a computer posting messages, becomes more rewarding if one also allow oneself other nice distractions that one can find outside - in the so called "real world".

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold However I find the time spent creatively trying to come up with new ideas is very pleasurable and rewarding. That is why I spend all my free time here, not over in the CtP2 forums

I agree!
Definitly not for "years and years" - but for the time being. And thats good enough for me.

	06-06-2001 01:52									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

As Grumbold said:
I find the time spent creatively trying to come up with new ideas is very pleasurable and rewarding.

To which I add:
It's also fun to debate your ideas with others.

I also spend all my Apolyton time surfing and posting to the Civ 3 forums - I've only ever posted once outside of the Civ 3 forum. This is where many of the new ideas are and I really enjoy reading about most of them.

Yin,
If you've stopped enjoying it, then by all means, do whatever you have to to rekindle it or find something else. Your many insightful contributions were and are appreciated, but the person who should get the most enjoyment out of them is you. Don't feel any obligation to post or surf topics you don't want to anymore.

Same goes for anything else that a person might find themselves enjoying less than they used to (add an ethics clause to the original statement).

	06-06-2001 02:26									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Many thanks to my friends here. I don't want to give one of those "goodbye forever" speeches, since I'll still be around. But I've never invested as much time in a game as I have for Civ3. Of course, the process was highly enjoyable, particularly since I got to "meet" some great people.

In the end, however, I think I somewhere got too worried about the result instead of enjoying the process. And I can already see myself pouring hours into the "Bug Hunters" project...which is a GREAT project but I just don't have it in me this time around.

I would hope that some of you guys in this thread will take the torch on that one and run with it. I guess I just need some of those "fresh" gaming experiences to get me back into it again. And if I know me, I'll come back looking to do another List or something...God help us.

	06-06-2001 04:58									#11
	Tired of ads?

Yin: next time come to Napa. Go see a winery or two, ride the the Wine Train. My daughters work at Silverado Country Club, maybe they can get you a special rate.
Now you come from LA and should know very well, there are whole cities you can not walk down the street without getting shot. My Grandfather on my mother side plus 2 of my uncles and one aunt was born on Towne Street between 9 and 10 street. I found the place back in 92/3. It is now a ghetto. I open my door stood up, took picture, sat back down and drove away. Total time about 5 min. It was no longer the place that my Great Grandfather built and raise his family. However it is still down town LA.

	06-06-2001 05:12									#12
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Never posted in the same thread as you Yin, but your reasoning was the main reason I got out of PBEM games. What was once very important and fun to me, became a huge chore, to the point of distracting from family. It was that very obsessive quality that actually took the joy out of playing.

I still play and Mod, but I do it at my own pace and when I feel like it - and I play more for the relaxation and creating my own history rather than trying to beat the crap out of the AI.

It is, after all, still only a game.

I also have internet access at work, so the temptation to drop in at Apolyton is still too large though...