14-06-2000 03:54									#1
	In OCC, When to stop sharing science with AI? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Last night I finished a practice OCC game in which I was beaten by a hastily built AI ship that was launched after I launched my ship.

The civ that beat me stole Plastics, and another Civ (my closest neighbor demanded space flight, but I never willingly gave any advance beyond space flight. So, I'm busily building my space ship and a few turns after Plastics were stolen the message appears "Aztecs build Module". MODULE?!?! I never gave module, and I never saw a message that *anyone* had developed Superconductor.

So, when do I need to stop sharing advances to make sure that I win the space race, and does the AI gift itself with space ship advances so it can keep up with human players?

John-SJ
edit: typo

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by John-SJ (edited June 13, 2000).]</font>
[This message has been edited by John-SJ (edited June 13, 2000).]

	15-06-2000 00:20									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If AI has Seti or Hoovers, I get real nervous about giving away later year science. Also, some OCCer's refuse to trade or give Refining as it can give AI a tech path resulting in a premature Flight causing the expiration of Colossus wonder.

I think AI can steal science during trade like humans do...I've had simular exeriences to yours.

	15-06-2000 00:30									#3
	Got spare money?

NEVER EVER leave a clear path to your city that the AI can use to get a tech that you don't want them to have!

	15-06-2000 00:46									#4
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In OCC I generally give up until advanced flight, and then stop contacting the AI altogether. You might find an AI contacting you with demands for a tech. Give it to them - otherwise they will declare war and pound you into the ground.

As Ming says, block off AI access to your city. Yuo should have several freight hanging to finihs off your modules/components, so use these as blockers.

	15-06-2000 01:04									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I concur with everything. I used to advocate giving away anything anytime to anyone, but getting beat to AC by an AI spaceship with 16 Components several times kind of changed my philosophy.

But a lot depends on the game. As a general rule, I draw the line at Combustion, but if the AI seems really slow or is really behind getting techs, I might go farther. If the AI is getting techs pretty quickly, I'll start being stingy a little earlier.

Usually, I can determine which approach to take by the time I discover Railroad.

Also, if some piss-ant civilization from the other corner of the world is demanding something, I'll likely tell them to go stuff it. But if it is the strongest nation on the planet (who happens to have several large cities surrounding your city), I'm more likely to cough it up.

And yes, if you give away Space Flight, you can reasonably expect every other non-backwards AI civ to have it within the next turn or two.


[This message has been edited by vik (edited June 14, 2000).]

	15-06-2000 01:38									#6
	Remove this text

I used to give away everything up to advanced flight, but lately I have been having some problems with AI civs getting flight too soon, so I suggest not giving them combustion. I will give other techs after discovering combustion, but if the AI civs are located close to you you might consider not giving them techs that allow them to build advanced military units such as armor, howitzer and bomber.

	15-06-2000 04:06									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ditto-I also have backed down from Flight to,but not including,Automobile.The AI can actually pose a threat to OCC if it gets techs like Mobile Warfare or, in particular, Advanced Flight.

I tend to hoarde OCC wonder techs(cept Bronze) till I'm reasonably assured of building it.I'll gift those techs the turn before the wonder is finished....usually.

Most often you don't need to gift after superhighways to get 2 turns per tech.

When I drop from 2 turns to 3,that is my cue to do some gifting.

But flexibilty can help.Knowing when it is safe to gift Space Flight,for example, can bring in some much needed gold for that last module.....

	15-06-2000 05:39									#9
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Hey, there's some great advice here, thanks to everyone who responded. About the second part of the question, does the AI give itself techs if the player gets too far ahead?

John-SJ
edit: typo


[This message has been edited by John-SJ (edited June 14, 2000).]

	16-06-2000 00:17									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I wished I got on this good discussion (so many new posts, so little time), I could offer a slight twist to the first question. Sometimes you really have to give your closest agressive neighbor everything (Space Flight and beyond) just to buy a little time. The goal of the challenge is actually to keep your one city alive to launch and land that spacecraft, preferably first. What good does it do to say that you won't give them Space Flight if that will p*ss them off enough to destroy your city? Hopefully you will be far enough ahead so when you have to give away the valuable later techs, you'll still win.

	16-06-2000 00:43									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Steve,

So true. I was playing OCC2(?) over again as practice. The first time I played it the French (just to the north-east) were constantly on my case and for the last half of the game at war with me.

This time I had an alliance with the French and was determined to keep it. I did give them Space Flight when they demanded it, but they weren't the real threat. Some time earlier the Aztecs had broken the alliance we had and about the same time the French were demanding space flight the Aztecs sent a spy and stole Plastic.

I probably still would have won except the Aztecs went to war with me (sneak attack) and even though the French formed a buffer zone with a couple of cities they were still within bomber range. I had to bolster defenses and doing that I lost my edge. The Aztecs seized the advantage and, launching later than I, still beat me to AC.

John-SJ