06-06-2001 02:21									#1
	Stealth and Camouflage? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The ability for some units to remain unseen should be simulated in some way. That could be done by a Stealth Rate - which would be the probability of a unit not to be spotted by the enemy. Subs, stealth planes and partisans should have a high stealth rate, and infantry units should be able to gain some by techs or veteran status. Defense bonus should apply to stealth rate, too.

	06-06-2001 08:46									#2
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Sound ok, but only some units should get the option of being upgraded to stealth.

	06-06-2001 09:49									#3
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For Camouflage the terraintype is the most impotent thing, and it should be easier to spot camouflaged units moving between different terrain then the units staining in the same terrain.

	06-06-2001 11:26									#4
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Hey Optimizer,

I totally agree with what you're saying. I've included in this post a segment of a reply I sent to the thread "Many Civ Irrelevancies" started by Polymths about 1 month ago. It shows the idea I came up with at the time (which I feel would be easy to implement!)

Have a great day (night?!).

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

	06-06-2001 11:28									#5
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Whoops!!!!
Must have been half asleep. Here's the post:

"Stealth Units (Stealth Bombers/Subs etc.): I believe that Subs, stlth bombers/fighters should all fall under a special "Stealth" category. I feel that all units should have a Stealth Rating (SR), and all units and cities should have a Detection Rating (DR). So long as the DR is lower than the SR, then the unit can sneak-up undetected (until it attacks)-obviously DR will be dependent on unit type, and city tech! The "Stealth" units I mentioned above, however, would have an additional special advantage. They should be able to get a single free "Stealth" attack. After this attack they are free to either move back to base (if they have the MP's available), or stay around and fight a normal battle. Once they attack, any invisible unit becomes visible (but once a "Stealth" unit moves away from it's target, it would regain its invisibility!)."

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

	06-06-2001 22:51									#6
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I agree that having "stealth" units would be nice. They were in CTP and, while some of the units were very annoying, it was kind of nice to know that they couldn't really see my submarines. Now, as to how to properly implement such a feature in CivIII, I'm going to have to say that I don't know.

	07-06-2001 09:21									#7
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THEIF!!! This was my idea!!!

My idea was simple. Certain types of units have certain stealth qualities.

For example;-

Guerillas - can only be seen in adjacent tiles normally. When fortified, are invisible until an enemy unit moves into an adjacent tile, upon which the guerillas attack with an equivalent to the bombard ability of certain other units. The guerillas then get the next turn, which they can either attack or move. They can also stay still, but having attacked, their cover is blown, hence they are visible once more. In other words, they have limited stealth via camouflage, but they can only do so by ambushing. They should only be able to do so on certain tiles e.g. mountain, forest.

Commandos - in addition to ambush, they can attack units, with a chance of detection according to their target e.g 75% chance of detection vs units in cities, 50% chance vs colonies, 25% chance vs units outside cities/colonies. Special units may be impervious to surprise attacks. If they are undetected in attack, they get bombard ability - if detected, they attack normally i.e. the targets fight back

Military engineers - can attack fortresses by eliminating/reducing fortifications with 50% chance of detection. Can lay minefields (see old thread i created....somewhere two turns to build, then appears on minelaying civ's map only as minefield) and sweep minefields, lay tank traps. Can build temporary bridges (roads/rail on river tiles) in half the time of normal engineers, but half normal movement (??)

Archers - can ambush in forests only?

Ninja - coooool Can attack military leaders, which i understand are in CivIII

I'm sure there are plenty more. Units such as marines should be impervious to ambush or stealth attacks, except for perhaps M/Engineer attacks on forts. Also perhaps Mongol special unit can attack with bombard if they have spare movement points after attack? I dunno - it's just an idea

Of course - the Aussie Lurker's idea sounds great too, but i guess it's a matter of gameplay.

	07-06-2001 11:33									#8
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Well, thank you Lung, I think your ideas are cool too. I guess that great minds think alike!!
I just so agreed with Polymths that, unless units like subs and stealth bombers could make free "stealth" attacks, these units are next to useless!!!
The same applies to the units that you've mentioned above. Keep up the great work!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker