16-06-2000 05:26									#1
	Most overrated MP Wonder: Mike's. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Why? For competitive reasons, most play MP at either King or Emperor level, thus it is not as vital as in a deity game to have this wonder. Plus, IMO, your happiness tactic should hinge on trade and luxeries inherient to a democracy, not Mikes or Bach. They take time that could be spent building settlers and roads and marketplaces. In the grander scheme, you'll be better off without them, IF you do your trading right and don't make war [keep defense and have a powerful ally, but warfare in the early times is foolhearty.].

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Elizer R. McGreen

	16-06-2000 05:35									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'll pretend you didn't just say that

Although I prefer Bach's cathedral more. They are high on my wonder list. Hoover damn and Leos may be the only one's higher. Magellans if I'm on a large water map.

	16-06-2000 05:36									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I've often wondered, how big is caravan trade in multiplayer?

As far as Mikes being overrated, it would be nice to have Mikes and trade and Mikes will definately enhance trade as you're city grows in democracy...I'll take Mikes over any wonder.

	16-06-2000 06:41									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

placed in right thread


I'm not going to say I never build or go for it but one can thrive in MP without it.You can persue academic
techs instead of religion and get other "key" wonders.

I'm a big fan of SOL in MP games as I like Commie for flexibility.3 units and temple=no unhappies till
8.No corruption and trade routes and you can keep up to Representative civs in science.In fact,if you go
heavy on caravans then you may find yourself the science leader before too long.

The tough thing about Mich's is when a player knows how to use it.It makes the switch to Republic easy
and very fast.You don't need any infastructure or trade routes to celebrate.Not to mention there are
crusaders about.Also the Mich's owner has less limitations put on expansion.

The farther a game goes,the less important Mich's is.

I'll take it every time if I could only get to it first.

	16-06-2000 07:15									#5
	Got spare money?

I find for my style of play Mike's is a waste of time.

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Elizer R. McGreen

	16-06-2000 16:24									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm waiting to hear what the fundamentalist players have to say about this thread It probably ranks up there with Adam Smith's in terms of usefulness. As for representative governments, I find Mike's pays for itself in almost no time flat. I can even forgo building colliseums with proper trade routes. In a large civilization, the savings there are huge. As Ming stated in a similar thread, the advanced governments are pretty well balanced, allowing each person to play his or her own way. And most of the wonders are geared to be useful in some, but not all environments. Its like people who find Women's Sufferage worthless. If you play a republic, you can use that wonder to make almost any city a virtual Shake's city, because you'll never have any unhappiness due to troop movements.

	16-06-2000 16:32									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We always play deity in MP so it is very useful. Not critical but it sure helps.
Vet Crusaders mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. (Homer Simpson donut drool)

And.... Attacking early is sometimes the best time. Vet crusader against phalanx..... Almost as good as vet chariots vs warriors.

RAH
Lost quite a few cities early to vet crusaders.

	16-06-2000 19:26									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Look out for those vet crudaders in a 2X2X game. You say you have city walls for protection...so what! They mean nothing to those 4 movement vets.

	16-06-2000 19:49									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Well, Rah, if you're going to torture yourself. Usually King level gets things moving a bit faster, but what floats your boat.

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Elizer R. McGreen

	16-06-2000 19:59									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If you know what you're doing, Deity moves quick enough. And the people I play with definately know what they're doing.

The only non deity games that I've ever played where a couple of MP games. (i do it every now and then to remind myself why I don't do it more often) The last one i played I actually built temples way earlier than needed , what a waste.
Since I knew we would never complete the game I looked at the map afterwards, and with one or two exceptions, no one had built any improvements in their cites. I don't even consider that a game.

RAH
But whatever floats your boat. We do do it for fun.