07-06-2001 01:50									#1
	Faction Balanced: You decide!? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Alright, I created this faction called the Gemini Empire. It was way to powerful at first, than I shrunk it down. Still too powerful. Now, I'm hear, wanting to know if the Gemini Empire Faction sounds to powerful, just right, or to weak. Here goes:

+3 MORALE: Highly trained military troops
+1 SUPPORT: Highly trained troops require little support
+1 INDUSTRY: Hard workers
-2 EFFICIENCY: Poorly organized
Free Headquarters at each Base

What do ya think? Need any work?

Last edited by Sapper on 07-06-2001 at 23:41

	07-06-2001 08:14									#2
	Remove this text

I think it's overpowered: the only disadvantage you give them is efficiency, and the headquarters compensates for that almost entirely. The headquarters selection may also make your game buggy, since a faction's only supposed to be able to have one.

I'd recommend not giving them the HQ. But consider: there are other choices to make too. For instance, what is their agenda, and what Social Engineering choice do they avoid? Perhaps their agenda is to unite the world under the rule of the Emperor: perhaps that might be Agenda: Power, and Avoidance: Democracy? (That'd make it underpowered right there!) Or perhaps their agenda and avoidance are something else. What are their priorities (explore/conquer/build/discover); what starting tech(s) do they get; how aggressive are they?

	07-06-2001 19:16									#3
	Good Point Got spare money?

Hmmm...I'll take out the HQ, but, the MORALE setting will remain. However, each faction must have some "specialty" that no other faction has, right? The Spartans have their prototype thing and the Beleivers are fanatical fighters. What about giving them a 75% hurry cost?

The "Gemini Empire's" agenda is to conquer Planet. There social priority is power, they can not use free market economy because....well, it's free! Their priorites are discover, conquer and they arevery aggressive war-mongers. Actually, I'll just put their text file right here:

;
; Sid Meier's ALPHA CENTAURI
;
; FACTION FILE: Gemini Empire
;
; Made with ACEdit (c)1999 ANX at http://www.sidgames.com/acedit
;
; For use this Faction file select load from
; faction select in the game and write... geminis
;

#GEMINIS
Gemini Empire, The Imperialists, Geminis, M, 2, Horvath, M, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0,
TECH, Physic, SOCIAL, +++MORALE, SOCIAL, +SUPPORT, SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, --EFFIC, PSI, 1, RESEARCH, 1, DRONE, 1, TALENT, 1, ENERGY, 1, HURRY, 75
Values, Power, MORALE
Economics, Free Market, nil
Gemini, Gemini
Assistant name, Scientist name, Assistant city
Emperor, great, arrogant, superior, puny,
power hungery tyrant
expand the Gemini Empire to Planet
to expand Gemini influence to Planet
complete Planetary conquest
complete Planetary copnquest
try to take over Planet just as you did earth
bragging about his 'imperialism'
bragging about your 'imperialism'
trying to conquer Planet
cravings for power, M1
imperialistic goals, M2
imperialistic goals, M1
insurance tax, M1
conquering your enemies
my Imperial Shock Troops
the Horvath Doctrine

#BASES
Gemini Command
Imperial Base
Emperor's Keep
Conquest Outpost
Quatermaster's Station
Fort Bentopia
Unity Rock
Naboo
Owl of Chiron
Hornet's Redoubt
Zurg Cave
Fortress Z
Homer's Citadel
Training Barracks
Normandy
Conqueror's Waypoint
Fort Communism
Coruscant
Steel Hold
Fort Imperialist
Fort Superlative
Table of Discipline
Amphitheater
Tatooine
Sector Green
Sector Red
S-4
#END

#WATERBASES
Ocean Outpost
General Base
Aqua Dock
Squadron Base
Squadron Anchorage
Eastern Front
Western Front
S-5
#END

#BLURB
Gemini growth and expansion will inevitably control this Planet
^
^
^ -- Emperor Horvath
^ "The Horvath Doctrine"
^
^

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Emperor Horvath}
^BACKGROUND: {Leader of the Gemini Empire (2032-2060 A.D.)}
^AGENDA: {Unify Planet under Gemini rule}
^TECH: {Applied Physcis}
^

#DATALINKS2
^+3 MORALE: {Highly trained military troops}
^+1 SUPPORT: {Highly trained troops require little support}
^-2 EFFICIENCY: {Poorly organized}
^{75% Hurry Costs}
^{May not use Free Market economy}

#FACTIONTRUCE
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"Pathetic mortal, sign this truce now or be destroyed!"

"Ok."
"No...I plan to rule this world alone!"

#FACTIONTREATY
#xs 440
#caption $CAPTION7
"I see no need to conquer you so would you like to sign this treaty
and avoid being a victim of my imperialism $TITLE0 NAME1$?"

"Sure, $NAME3."
"We'll see who's the victim, $TITLE0."


# ; This line must remain at end of file

	07-06-2001 18:45									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

It's easy to see why this is an overpowered faction -- the combination of super-high morale, high support and high industry means essentially you've got quickly-produced, high-tech, extremely menacing units, and lots of 'em.

No meaningful drawbacks exist to balance that out, such as Miriam's inability to research or yang's crippling economy.

I'd suggest:

1) Have morale be +1, but give each city a free Command Center. That way, you keep your coveted +3 unit morale without giving the society such easy access to +5 Morale troops via Command Nexus. (With +3 morale, your units will become elite in no time anyway).

2) Ditch the -2 Efficiency, which is no big deal and certainly not enough to compensate for the overwhelming strengths. Instead, add a -1 Growth penalty (too busy making war to make love) and a -2 Economy (Cost of incessant, vigorous training of troops and buying weapons).

Even then, these guys might be too much. You can get an idea by playing games as a faction other than Gemini, doing nothing but clicking "end turn" 50 - 100 times. Then open the scenario editor and see who's winning. If Gemini is leading more than 17% of the time, chances are the faction is too powerful.


Funny enough, I'm currently working on the Anti-Gemini faction, a medicine-oriented society based on the Hippocratic oath, pacifism and healing.

Let me know what you think:


APOLLONIANS
LEADER: {Dr. Jonas Koop Elders}
BACKGROUND: {Unity Chief Medical Officer and Surgeon}
AGENDA: {Promote healthy living and end human suffering}
TECH: {Biogenetics}


#DATALINKS2
+1 GROWTH: {Extremely healthy population}
+1 RESEARCH: {Excellent labs and researchers}
-1 POLICE: {Criminal behavior seen as illness to be treated}
-3 MORALE: {Revere pacifism and Hippocratic Oath: "First, do no harm"}
15% PSI Bonus: {Application of neurosciences, psychobiology}
Children's Creche: {Massive health infrastructure}


Very fast growth with subsequent drone problems. Crappy offense against human units, but okay defense at home because of creches. Decent combat against native life.

Seems about balanced when I run the computer teams against one another...

	07-06-2001 19:55									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Erm... HELLO!!!!!!! I don't think that you can give free HQs to EVERY base, doing this will move your HQ to the brand new base.

Also PSI, 1, RESEARCH, 1, DRONE, 1, ENERGY,1 look pretty ridiculous and unneccecary.

The faction, as seen from your datalinks seems balanced with the SMAX factions, but not so much with SMAC factions. I suggest, if you want a balanced game in SMAC, give them a -1 ECONOMY, because of high military budget.

	07-06-2001 23:38									#6
	Hmmm... Increase Your PM Length

Hmmm...thanks for the advice so far. Here's what the datalinks look like so far:

DATALINKS1

Leader: Emperor Horvath
Background: Leader of the Gemini Empire (2032-2060 A.D.)
Agenda: Unify Planet under Gemini Rule
Tech: Applied Physcis


DATALINKS2

+2 MORALE: Highly trained military troops
+1 SUPPORT: Highly trained troops require little support
-1 PLANET: War causes eco-damage
-2 GROWTH: Cramped Living conditions in barracks
75% Hurry Costs: Industries built up for war
May NOT use Free Market Economy: It's free!

In the beginning, my faction was rated at 11.5 according to http://www.crosswinds.net/~smaccf/ scoring chart. Now, it's rated at 6.5 Just .5 higher than Morgan Industries, the Spartans, and the Gaians. If I changed that -2 GROWTH to a -1 GROWTH the rating would become 8.5 What do ya'll think now?

	09-06-2001 00:24									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hmm...

On their site they themselves say that no one should restrict themselves by those rules and "strict following of these rules benefits no one". So I don't think that -1 Growth would make them any more powerful than they are, expect less annoyiing when you play them yourself (when it takes you ages to grow and you had to delay productions for turns now).

	09-06-2001 06:08									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

About the crosswinds site.I am the author of one of the class one factions but i want say who for privacy reasons.


So i did send that faction and they did put it.The next 3 months i sended them 4 more factions with new city graphicks.They didsnt put them on.And inow that i looked it after a year they dont seem to have many new factions.


About your faction.Did you now that headquartes have special probe and efficiency status ?

As it is now modified your faction is balanced..But big but.

When i did made some factions i playtested them to death.

Not only that but i let the game play alone (editor mode choose a faction to be played by pc and a coin to hold enter button down).
You really need to playtest your factions.


also on the other faction the
APOLLONIANS
LEADER: {Dr. Jonas Koop Elders}
BACKGROUND: {Unity Chief Medical Officer and Surgeon}
AGENDA: {Promote healthy living and end human suffering}
TECH: {Biogenetics}


#DATALINKS2
+1 GROWTH: {Extremely healthy population}
+1 RESEARCH: {Excellent labs and researchers}
-1 POLICE: {Criminal behavior seen as illness to be treated}
-3 MORALE: {Revere pacifism and Hippocratic Oath: "First, do no harm"}
15% PSI Bonus: {Application of neurosciences, psychobiology}
Children's Creche: {Massive health infrastructure}

This is balanced for smac and weak for smax

But i have a question .

What faction will this faction replace ?

If it replaces one of the aggrecive factions

spartans,hive,believers doesent this change the balance of the game ?


And of course this faction is very difficult for multiplayer.

	09-06-2001 15:23									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by sleeperservice So i did send that faction and they did put it.The next 3 months i sended them 4 more factions with new city graphicks.They didsnt put them on.And inow that i looked it after a year they dont seem to have many new factions.

Have you tried posting your factions at the Network Node? That is a very good site, constantly updated and is always up and running. I posted 4 factions there. Try visiting them at their NEW address at http://networknode.topcities.com/index.html (you will nedd Flash though, which is downloadable from the site).