21-07-2001 20:09									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Great work!

Missing is the "Join City" command.

Further, the unit is called "Settlers" or "Engineers", i.e. no singular nouns apply.
Think of them as teams, just like the "Horsemen" unit is more than a single rider.

I'm not sure, but I think you can find Settlers in huts until YOU discover invention (or maybe it is until explosives for Settlers?), just like you can still get tech when another tribe (but not you) already knows about invention.

	22-07-2001 09:47									#32
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker I think you can just click on the settler at the end of the turn: the work of the settler will be cumulated, but the settler will be waked next turn.

The key was the part about the job almost being done, and the Settler being assessed toward the end of the turn. I'll see if I can phrase that better.

Ribannah: This multiple-engineer thing is hard enough without single units being plural. I think I will continue to take liberties with the names.

Thanks everyone!

	22-07-2001 16:47									#33
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The problem may be caused by my poor english...
But if your settler is the last unit assessed on the current turn and his work job be finished the next turn, then you can click him preventively before you press Enter (end of turn): he won't continue working the next turn.

Do you refresh both versions (apolyton and angel fire)? I hope so (but I would be lazy to do it): I have re-read the apolyton now.
2.2 3rd paragraph
Irrigation can only be built if a square immediately (not diagonally) adjacent is ocean, river, or is a non-city square with irrigation.
Are you sure that an adjacent city square with a river works?

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker 2.2 3rd paragraph: continuation Test result: Even the city square that was irrigated before building a city don't allow irrigation

I would include it. One day somebody could test it again...

	22-07-2001 22:14									#34
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker Are you sure that an adjacent city square with a river works?

Yes, that works. Note, however, that the city square (if not on a river) doesn't actually show as irrigated on the screen until it borders on an irrigated square (or river or ocean), even while it counts as irrigated with regard to food produced.

	23-07-2001 04:10									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Ribannah Note, however, that the city square (if not on a river) doesn't actually show as irrigated on the screen until it borders on an irrigated square (or river or ocean),

I don't understand... Do you mean that city square doesn't actually show as irrigated on the world or city screen?
I don't know how I can see the irrigation/non-irrigation of the city square.

	23-07-2001 17:56									#36
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker I don't understand... Do you mean that city square doesn't actually show as irrigated on the world or city screen? I don't know how I can see the irrigation/non-irrigation of the city square.

The (main) world screen. Once it does show, the irrigation it is clearly visible underneath the city. The town buildings don't quite cover the entire city square.

	23-07-2001 19:29									#37
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Gastrifitis:

A very useful compilation indeed. Thanks for taking the time to pull it together.

One suggestion:
In 3.2.1. TABLE 3-Work time for Settlers and Engineers, you might want to clarify whether the number of turns to build a railroad is from scratch or given that a road is already in place. I think you reported the former, but the number of turns given a road in place might be more relevant to actual game-play situations. (If you are using railroads to connect cities, you would almost always build them atop existing roads.) IIRC, railroads are essentially "double" roads, so building a railroad atop an existing road cuts the number of turns in half.

edit: spelling

Last edited by Adam Smith on 23-07-2001 at 22:37

	24-07-2001 23:29									#38
	Increase Your PM Length

Ummm...I think that it takes longer to build a RR on top of an existing road than it does to build the road in the first place; my engineers build roads in a single turn (on plains, grassland, etc.), but take two turns to build a RR on top of that.

	18-04-2002 10:40									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Perhaps this is going outside the topic of Settlers/Engineers per se, but note that an Airfield also prevents enemy aircraft (including Nukes) from entering the tile. This has profound impact in late game Engineer strategies.

	01-05-2002 02:55									#40
	NON unit addict Suffering from ads?

I almost forgot my favorite late-game Engineer tactic: transport Engr (or better, old Settler) to island nearer an AI city than any of your cities. Found city, maximize for shields, build Engr unit, buy unit before city grows to size 2.

Voila, a NON Engineer!

	01-05-2002 03:00									#41
	Hidden cities Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Ribannah, although we are digressing from the subject, I'd add that if you trade maps with somebody, and there are cities in the area that were built after the civ you traded maps with explored, the new cities show as empty, irrigated tiles.

	01-05-2002 11:43									#42
	Re: Hidden cities Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Straybow Ribannah, although we are digressing from the subject, I'd add that if you trade maps with somebody, and there are cities in the area that were built after the civ you traded maps with explored, the new cities show as empty, irrigated tiles.

Now you learn something every day ...

SG[1]

	01-05-2002 22:16									#43
	What being a cheat gets you Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I had noticed the odd irrigated tile on those traded maps and decided to take a peek at the world map to find out what they were. Hey, that's what cheating is for, right? Just a tool to learn more about the way the game works. Certainly nobody would really cheat, right?

[straightens tie innocently]

	27-05-2002 22:17									#44
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I'm not sure if this was posted allready here(sorry, but it is a lot to read) but Slowthinker suggested me to post it here, so I do.

I read something in the Great Library Index about the settler building in the size1 capital. I think some question weren't answered or I'm blind.
The food box remains filled. The settler costs 1 shield and one food.

Another Trick with Settlers for Micromanagers. Whith the right timing, your cities will remain decreased for only the one turn when you build the settler. Multiply the size of your city with ten and you see, how much grain you need, so that the city grows within the next turn after you build your settler.

	27-05-2002 22:46									#45
	Got spare money?

Shaft - not quite a size 1 capital - it must be your only city at this time as well -- but it works very nicely -- the Settler support is whatever is appropriate to your government - which need not be Despotism -- if you wander for ages before founding you can have already revolted to Monarchy or even to a 'higher' form of government ...

SG[1]

	28-05-2002 01:33									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Shaft The settler costs 1 shield and one food.

Do you mean the unit support?
I think the settler has a regular support: i.e. the shield support can be 0 if there is no other unit.

quote: Originally posted by SG[1] the Settler support is whatever is appropriate to your government - which need not be Despotism -- if you wander for ages before founding you can have already revolted to Monarchy or even to a 'higher' form of government ...

completely
I thought if you wander for ages before founding then you have no science collected...

	28-05-2002 20:51									#47
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quote: I thought if you wander for ages before founding then you have no science collected...

You may found Mona in a hut (is it possible to find a form of government in a hut?, i never did) or you got right from the start, what is definitely possible or you already captured another city without founding one. But I advise you not to do this, because you won't have a capital then(No palace).

quote: Do you mean the unit support?I think the settler has a regular support: i.e. the shield support can be 0 if there is no other unit.

Yes it can. But in the GB there was the question, if these "special"settlers need a support. Yes, they need it, referring to your form of government.

quote: Shaft - not quite a size 1 capital - it must be your only city at this time as well

Yes, that's what i meant. Sorry.

	28-05-2002 21:07									#48
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Science while a nomad ...
You can get science from a hut (yes it can be a government), science from conquest - you get a tech even if you (as you might prefer) destroy the city completely, and science from trade with the AI - none of these are dependent upon having a city ...

SG[1]

	28-05-2002 21:36									#50
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Shaft You may found Mona in a hut (is it possible to find a form of government in a hut?, i never did)

The "monarchy" tech? probably yes (SG?). But can you switch governments with no city? I guess you can.

	28-05-2002 21:47									#51
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Yes (you can switch governments) - and there is no problem with oedo as none of the effects of anarchy matter when one has no cities

To clarify my previous post - trade with the AI meant diplomatic arrangements and tech trading - of course it is very difficult to build caravans without a city ...

SG[1]

	06-06-2002 20:37									#52
	How did that happen? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

And which thread was it?

Last edited by Straybow on 07-06-2002 at 11:10

	06-06-2002 21:05									#53
	Tired of ads?

Wrong thread Straybow,

Put this in the other one please. (especially since it's another person that agrees with me)

RAH

	21-05-2003 00:56									#54
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Gastrifidis, are you there? Your page at angelfire is away...

Temporarily I post a copy of the original page from my harddisk.

The original text (it includes also pictures): Load the attachment

Attachment: info settlers.zip
This has been downloaded 12 time(s).

Last edited by SlowThinker on 08-03-2004 at 04:23

	08-07-2003 05:47									#55
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Accelerated orders (in Multiplayer/Internet mode)

	08-07-2003 21:04									#56
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker I started to play my first MP game and I found out following differences: In SP mode and in Multiplayer/Hotseat mode orders works normally (for example Settler/Engineer work lasts as described in Info: Settlers-Engineers (GL) ). But in Multiplayer/Internet mode every order to a unit is executed 2 times. This has effect to fortifying and Settler/Engineer work: Fortifying don't last 2 turns, but only 1 (i.e. it works immediately); Settler cumulates 2 'works' the turn the order is given (but next turns it adds only 1 'work' to his cumulated 'work'): For example grassland is reforested in 10 turns normally. But in MP mode this is done in 9 turns if you give the order and let the Settler work without wakening (first turn 2 'works' are made, then 1 'work' is added every turn). And the same work is done in 5 turns if the Settler is wakened and reordered every turn. Why I post this in PBEM forum? IMHO this behavior of MP/Internet mode makes the game less balanced than the SP mode. It causes a player has less strategic choices: especially roads everywhere and immediately are obligatory. But you have the choice between MP/Internet mode and MP/Hotseat. Why don't you use Hotseat for PBEM?

Didn't realize this. I knew it doubled on the first turn but didn't pay attention to what happened afterwards.
Good catch...I guess I'll have to wake that settler more often, until we decide that it's a cheat. (if we do)

	08-07-2003 22:00									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It is hard to decide it's a cheat. Only if you forbid also to cumulate, carry and transmit Settler's work.
BTW also in SP I often wake the Settler up: I never know if some attacker will come or I will change mind and send the Settler to another work.

But it changes MP in comparison with SP very much. Good thing is that it favors work on squares, grow cities and not to found new cities as fast as possible. Bad thing is that you always build a roads - and so there is less strategic deciding for players.

	08-07-2003 22:34									#58
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The funny thing is that I kind of suspected something like this because when I would add an a second worker the timing happened faster, but I couldn't pin it down. Now I know why. This will help a lot with building roads on forest/hills/mountains, and transforming those river squares into forest rivers.

	09-07-2003 02:28									#59
	Full PM-box? Change here!

What is really funny IMO is that SlowThinker is playing his 'almost' first MP game (IIRC he played one against Eyes a long time ago ) and he discovers a feature that many players, very experienced at MP, didn't...

Since he is playing this 'almost' first game against me, I guess I should be afraid

	09-07-2003 03:07									#60
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well since there isn't really much irrigating and while there is some terrain modifying, it's usually not extensive, so most of the settler's work is road building and everyone knew that roads on clear terrain were one turn instead of two, just no one put together what was happening on latter turns.