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Paul
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Zwolle, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:12
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Based on the discussion in Vik's thread I updated the OCC strategy guide with the editing and expanding that Vik did and some more editing by myself.
As Vik suggested I started this new thread for the feedback. To start with, I'll first copy Vik's feedback post from that thread and I'll respond to that:
quote:
Paul,
I checked out the Strategy Guide. I think it looks really good.
Third paragraph of section 2.4 has a typo. Should be "two" instead of "rwo" in the 3rd sentence. I don't doubt what I sent you probably had some errors in it.
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Ah, a typo. I've just changed that.
quote:
One thing I learned reading your edits (actually 2 things): 32-shield base production yields 80 shields after the factory/power/manu plant? Wow. That's helpful, because I always just estimated. I figured 4 specials and two or three mined-hills ought to do it. I was just hoping for the best, and I usually got close to 90 shields this way. That will lessen the load on me.
But, when counting for 32 shields, it sounds like you are including an off-shore platform and railroads (even though these may not actually have been built yet). Wow, that's easy. 32 -- a number to remember.
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Yes, the factory/power plant/man. plant together give a 150% bonus, so you'll need 32 base shields to get the 80 shields you need to build your structurals in one turn.
And yes, the 32 base shields include the offshore platform and railroad bonus. Those shields are also modified by the factory/power plant/man. plant combo.
quote:
I also came into some personal confusion on the order to build a university, bank, and Isaac's. I understand better, now.
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I personally prefer the order university, bank, Newton but game circumstances may cause a change in that order, for example if you can get banking from the AI before you discover university.
quote:
I can't really fairly comment on the helpfulness of the table, because most of that stuff is in my memory. It seems useful, though, and the important thing is that new players have two ways in which to get help. Sometimes pictures/tables help more.
One thing I think we can add is some strategy on when exactly to deliver caravans. I thought of this after I emailed you my section. We say "deliver them as soon as possible" when in truth we know it might be more beneficial to wait one turn to deliver a caravan. This is if you are close to discovering the next technology, or if you happen to be in a period of anarchy while switching governments. We also should state the part about maximizing the arrow squares when it is delivered. Just some thoughts.
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Yes, I'll write something about that as well. Actually, if I'm already celebarting WLTCD when I deliver my caravans I sometimes wait until I reached size 12 so that I can get a larger initial bonus. But that also depends on other circumstances.
quote:
But again, looks great, although I am biased. heh heh.
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So I'll do some more editing in the guide tomorrow; I won't have time for that today. Besides, if I get some more feedback I can put it all in at once.
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Looks good, especially the table. Comes in handy when you haven't played OCC for a while.
On trade, maybe you could also include the "max out trade arrows trick" before delivering a caravan.
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Aurelius
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San Francisco
Dec 1999
time: 05:12
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Huey,
Thanks for answering this question in the happiness thread. It's also good to trade with AI republics and Democracies for the one time bonus.
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Aurelius, I learned that one and many others too on this very board 
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Aurelius
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San Francisco
Dec 1999
time: 05:12
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Wow, just got done reading the new strategy guide and am happy to say I learned quite a bit--like I haven't been fully utilizing incremental buying.
Also, as Vik suggests, "Sometimes pictures/tables help more." I'm not a good reader and find good pics helpful or compelling.
Thanks again
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Genghis Al
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of the Russian horde
Dec 1999
time: 05:12
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Aurilius! Hey ther, it has been some time. I stopped playing civ, don't ask me why. I do miss the old forums though.
I hang out in the CTP forums now, call to power is my new addiction. Nice to see you and Smash though.
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Aurelius
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San Francisco
Dec 1999
time: 05:12
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Hi Genghis,
Someone said they'd seen you post at one of the other apolyton forums. I also have to give up Civ periodically. I've never played CTP; too many variants of the same game. I'm looking forward to getting a DSL connection and playing some Mp though. Maybe we can duel.
Hackey sac hunh...
later
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Tom DeMille
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Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Jan 2000
time: 00:12
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Vik and Tonic, my next OCC scenario will require a Granary, and there won't be any whales...
Paul, the rewrite and addition of the reference table will help out new OCC players a lot. Good job. Here's my two cents worth:
1) Have a link to the reference table at the top of the document (of course, people can just bookmark the table for easy reference, or print the thing out, which is what I would do if I were still new to OCC).
2) You ask the question "what should you have your settler improve first?" and go on to mention mining wine or gold. I agree that mining wine is a priority, but gold is not. It seems to take forever to mine a mountain, and for what - 1 extra shield. I would rather have irrigated and roaded a couple of plains squares in preparation for jumping up to size 12. I tend to leave mining gold until about the time I'm doing my railroading.
3) You suggest to hold off trading for non essential techs with other civs. This is certainly what I do before discovering Monarchy, but after that I tend to just take whatever the AIs offer. It does slow the science rate, but I can think of 3 reasons for doing it:
i) If you tip a hut and get a science you could have traded for from an AI, it makes you mad.
ii) If you ask for gifts from your allies, you will generally get their early sicnece instead of money. I guess the question is it better to have a faster discovery rate without getting money from the AIs. Money will help rushbuy caravans/Copernicus, so it's a balancing act.
iii) If the AI is offering Warrior Code, it might also have Mathematics and Construction. You won't know until you try a trade.
4) Something you could mention in section 4 about fortnight games: Research behaves slightly differently for scenarios and regular games. In a regular game, some of the techs that you should be able to research next (ie you have the prerequisits) are blocked. In scenarios, there is no such restriction. Scenarios therefore play quicker than regular games.
5) In section 2.6, you could add a mention of the alternate spaceships that can be built. If you can launch a ship before 1750 (when time changes from 10 years per turn to 2 years per turn), then you can consider a 15-1-1-1-1-1 ( travel time 36 years, 79% chance of success), or a 15-2-2-1-1-1 spaceship (25? years, 95% chance of success).
A 15-1-1-1-1-1 launced in 1700 would land in 1736.
Compared to a 15-2-2-1-1-1 ship launched in 1720 landing in 1745
and a 15-3-3-1-1-1 ship launched in 1740 landing in 1757.
The danger in this strategy is that i) The ship crashes, although this has not happened to me yet, or ii) An AI builds a ship in the 36 turns you're sitting around waiting, and then beats you to AC.
If you discover spaceflight around 1200, you should be in a position to launch one of these small ships. Keep in mind that you only need 5 freights to build a 15-1-1-1-1-1 ship instead of 9.
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vik
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Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Jan 2000
time: 05:12
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Tom,
Good points. I should say that this part of the strategy section was mine. I suppose it was a short-sighted in lieu of these issues you bring up.
I will defer defending what I put because the rationale is already in the Strat-guide. Again, I admit to tunnel-vision here, but that's what this whole review process is about.
I'm glad you pointed that out, because sometimes it is better to trade for horse-back riding or something right after Monarchy in order to better ensure a monetary gift.
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Cam
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Australia
Jan 1970
time: 14:42
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There's few things worse than coming on these threads and apologising for a question, however I've had ongoing problems with AI civs encroaching on my city square radius. I usually play with ToT (which I'm sure shares the MPGE's aggressive traits) and work hard to keep AI alliances - however often I ally with one, and they plomp a city / cities just outside mine and start working my city squares (pre-Sanitation). Placing units on the square doesn't do anything (alliance), and if you break off the alliance, peace quickly becomes unwanted war.
Is there an approach to dealing with allies that encroach on your city radius by taking unworked squares? If so, this might be good for the guide (assuming I haven't missed it already!).
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Aurelius
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San Francisco
Dec 1999
time: 05:12
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Cam,
You can always break off the alliance and then squat on the land and then give away a ton of science to reinitiate the alliance, but it can be dangerous.
I had a similar problem with an ally using a river grass square my One City needed for growth. But when pollution occurred, the square was abandoned by the AI. So I pounced on it. One possibility is to develop some land for the AI to switch to outside of your radius....bit time consuming but well worth it if it works.
Another idea is preventative...send you're food caravans out of the city and monitor the area for ally settlers thinking of settling nearby your One City and then block the way!
I use to put my caravans all around my resource squares to prevent diplomats and pest ally terraformers from approaching, but occasionally I'd get burned by Barb Knights.
The surefire way to prevent the AI from encroaching on One City resources is to grow fast and use up all the resources... a requirement in OCC anyways.
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Cam
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Australia
Jan 1970
time: 14:42
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Aurelius,
Thanks for your considered response - the encroachment problem's pretty frustrating!
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Cam
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Australia
Jan 1970
time: 14:42
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Scouse,
Thanks again for the advice. Usually at least two of my four special resources are land-based, although frustratingly if it's a gold or iron ore square, it's the first to go once an engineer's built, and 'whammo' - guess who's lost a railroaded gold mine? ('Mine' being the operative).
I wonder what you can do about ocean-specials that get pinched? I'd imagine this probably never happens, as they're usually so food-rich.
So clearly, you have to conscientiously put your workers on the outer perimeter? OK - thanks, I'll give it a shot!
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11-06-2000 23:51
) and the tribe to the Astros (my Astronauts are headed for the stars all the way.) It's an easy thing to do for programmers like me, but I could write a little guide for non-programmers (kids, try this at home 
) - it's not that hard. Would anyone be interested in this?
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