11-06-2001 16:49									#1
	Scenario question Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

SG2 & I have little experience playing scenarios - for us the unknown is much of the pleasure of the game and playing on a known map - and replaying to improve operational strategies - has limited interest.
However, recently, thanks mainly to our friend LaFayette we have been dragged kicking and screaming into some scenarios -- with the result that a few new (to us) questions have emerged ...

1. In a scenario such as 'Alexander' (CiC) there appear to be only 10 objective cities, but a score of (IIRC) 28 is required for a decisive victory - where are the other objectives?
2. Should one pursue 'conquest' in a general fashion - thereby acquiring the 'objectives' as a side effect - or should one warp the strategy in order to gain the objectives - even (perhaps) at the cost of not being able to hold them - here I assume that on some putative 'last turn' one grabbed several objectives in order to 'win' knowing that were there to be more turns these gains would be recaptured?
3. Many scenarios seem to have prevented any change of government - this of course leads to major happiness problems as one's empire grows - is it considered legitimate to either - take advantage of MGE's willingness to allow you to switch government on the turn you acquire a new one? (I would suspect not) or to weaken opponents without actually capturing their cities so as to expand your empire only on the ultimate move?

	11-06-2001 21:36									#2
	Support Apolyton

In some scenarios, objectives are scored (given a value greater than one). In others the dead rung up by each side count for scoringn (my dead ubits minus your dead units). There is usually a read.me file of some sort, often in the civilpedia, which gives these values. In the case of Alexander, I do not know.

	11-06-2001 22:58									#3
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SG
I was wondering whether I would start a new thread to discuss this. No more need to wonder: you have done it.
1) My opinion in short about this great game (I mean playing SP, since I haven't played MP at all YET ):
There are so many ways to play it (conquest, landing, level, size of map, records, ...) that many experienced players still find it fun, even after having played hundreds of games. But, IMO, micromanaging numerous big cities is a bore (and micromanaging to the level of precision of our friends OCCers does 't attract me either, though I admire them and thank them for all they have brought us).
My aim #1 is FUN.
My aim #2 is SLOW THINKING (spending long minutes to 'crush' my brains, trying to find a nice way to get here or there).
I found out recently that many scenarios are REAL FUN to play, and also provide ( to some extent) opportunities to think OTHERWISE (without huts, without wonders, without tech tree, ...).
2) About the objectives
Apart from some strategical advice given by Xin Yu quite a long time ago, I don't remember having read much about scenarios on this forum.
My strong opinion is that when there are objectives given by the authors, the interesting part of the game is conquering them (I haven't met one scenario yet where there appears the slightest chance to lose after having conquered them).
My strong opinion is that I don't wish to get bored playing endless endgames if I can avoid it.
AFAIK there are no established rules and this is open to discussion. (if you start a poll, you have already my vote :NO to boring endgames).

	11-06-2001 23:08									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

1 - Actually I counted 16 objective cities - maybe you've not found them all, there is one in Egypt and several along the roads to India - some of them count as 3xobjectives, which adds up to the 30 required (I just did the scenario today).

2 - Warp the strategy, the objectives are all that count. I've sold all improvements in my cities just to raise enough cash to buy the last few cities, and most of them there is no way I could hold them for any amount of time (I almost lost a city to barbs on the second to last turn!). Also, destroying objectives might be a good idea too - if you think you can't hold the city try to get it destroyed instead, remeber the aim is for you to hold all >remaining< objectives.

3 - I play my scenarios on FW so govt. switching is never allowed (this was annoying playing Neutrals in ww2, stuck in monarchy). If you get the option go ahead and switch if you think it's for the best.

	12-06-2001 03:05									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Regarding objective cities, game version differences can mess up objective values of cities. In other words, the scenario was set up to have the city be one objective point, and wonders additional objective points for the city they are in. But your version counts one total. The scoring lists what the designer had, say 42 objectives as the winning criteria; Your version only sees 31 of the 42 possible. Objective cities are listed in the "find city" option in the menu, with how many objective points they are worth.

Often, if the objective is to sack as many objective cities as possible, it is a good idea to not settle many of your own. Not being able to switch government limits how big you can reasonably grow. Don't forget that the AI will be settling, and you will likely be capturing their new cities, too.

There are many scenarios that are very fun to play. Even knowing where you are supposed to go to win does not always help you! Good luck leading young Alexander to the Indus!