13-06-2001 19:07									#1
	Piecing together the civs and their leaders... Inflate your Upload Space

OK, so we have numerous screenshots, videos, etc, and we have seen a lot of civilisations which will appear in the game. Now I have had a look and some of the ones I have seen so far:

1. Americans - Abraham Lincoln - Abraham Lincoln animated leader and so many screenshots seen playing this side. Abrams tank and F-16 special unit seen.
   
   
2. English - Elizabeth I - Yep, again, another animated leader, although no screenshots of the civilisation playing. Longbowman and Man-O-War special units seen.
   
   
3. Germans - ? - Seen cities such as Berlin and Hanover on a map being played. Panzer special unit seen.
   
   
4. Persians - ? - Seen cities such as Persepolis and Bactra, so they will probably be in.
   
   
5. French - Joan of Arc - Screenshot of diplomacy screen clearly shows the french with a female leader in chainmail, who I would expect to be Joan of Arc. Apparently have the special unit Musketeer.
   
   
6. Aztecs - ? - Again, I have seen the cities of Tenochtitlan and Ecatepec. Presumably it will be ruled by Montezuma. Eagle Warrior special unit spotted.
   
   
7. Greeks - Alexander the Great - Ditto, seen the city of Athens on a screenshot. Screenshot of diplomacy screen shows leader.
   
   
8. Romans - Caesar - Now I have seen the city of Rome, I am sure I have others as well on the screenshot. Now if you look closely at the E3 videos (in both) you will notice when he loads a game, it has a 'game loaded' window with the Civ2 picture of Caesar on it. I presume the leader will be Caesar. Legion special unit seen.
   
   
9. Indians - Gandhi - On the most recent video which has the trailer, there is quite clearly a picture of an animated Gandhi, who would most certainly be the ruler of the Indians.
   
   
10. Babylonians - ? - Confirmed by Dan Magaha. City seen on screenshot (Nippur)
    
    
11. Chinese - Mao Tse Tung - Animated head once more.
    
    
12. Japanese - ? - Now I believe one of these animated heads to be Japanese. No idea who the leader is, but the architecture behind him is a giveaway. Samurai special unit seen.
    
    
13. Zulus - ? - Special unit Impi has been spotted, so the Zulus are probably in the game. Cities on map spotted (Isandhlwana, Ulundi)
    
    
14. Egyptians - ? - Seen the city of Hieraconpolis on a screenshot. Animated head of Pharaoh seen.
    
    
15. Russians - ? - No other information than the special unit MiG seen.
    
    
16. Iroquois - ? - Leader Hiawatha seen. Some sort of Brave special unit seen. Cities seen (Oka, Gewauga, Onnontare, Waukegan)
    

Last edited by Provost Harrison on 10-08-2001 at 03:01

	13-06-2001 20:19									#2
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good work

	13-06-2001 20:28									#3
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Thanks. And oh yeah, we have seen some sort of brave special unit for the Native Americans...

	14-06-2001 01:26									#4
	Re: Piecing together the civs and their leaders... Increase Your PM Length

quote: Germans - ? - Seen cities such as Berlin and Hanover on a map being played. Panzer special unit seen.

Frederick the Great, maybe but doubtfully Bismarck.

quote: Greeks - ? - Ditto, seen the city of Athens on a screenshot. Presumably ruled by Alexander the Great.

Gotta be Alexander

quote: Spanish - ? - On one of the screenshots (same one with Persians) you can quite clearly see the city of Salamanca, quite clear (at least originally) a Spanish city. No leader known however.

Isabella

quote: Japanese - ? - Now I believe one of these animated heads to be Japanese. No idea who the leader is, but the architecture behind him is a giveaway. Samurai special unit seen.

Tokugawa, something tells me they'll skip Tojo or Hirohito

quote: Zulus - ? - Special unit Impi has been spotted, so the Zulus are probably in the game.

Gotta be Shaka

quote: Egyptians - ? - Seen the city of Hieraconpolis on a screenshot, but that is all I have seen.

Ramses II or Cleopatra, I'd bet on Ramses, him being an actually accomplished leader. But lacking more female leaders, I'd give Cleopatra a politically correct edge.

quote: Russians - ? - No other information than the special unit MiG seen.

Catherine the Great or Stalin, I'd guess Stalin, but again, the whole politically correct thing...

quote: Native Americans - ? - Seen animated leader. This appears to be an Iroquois leader of some sort. Some sort of Brave special unit seen.

Sitting Bull is Sioux, Tecumseh if Iroquois


Again, though, these are only guesses.

	14-06-2001 01:49									#5
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Nice work. It would be nice if we could be given the ability to change civ/leader combos without much effort (i.e. renaming files, creating special mods, etc.).

	14-06-2001 04:14									#6
	Re: Piecing together the civs and their leaders... Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison OK, so we have numerous screenshots, videos, etc, and we have seen a lot of civilisations which will appear in the game. Now I have had a look and some of the ones I have seen so far: [*]Americans - Abraham Lincoln - Abraham Lincoln animated leader and so many screenshots seen playing this side. Abrams tank and F-16 special unit seen.

The Airplane is a F-15 and not F-16.

	14-06-2001 05:51									#7
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Those civs sound pretty much like they will be included in civ 3, except i'm not sure if Native America has been confirmed.

	14-06-2001 06:01									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Alex 14 Those Civs sound pretty much like they will be included in civ 3, except I'm not sure if Native America has been confirmed.

Actually we have two. One a picture of a Iroquois Indian Leader and a Indian unit.

	14-06-2001 13:42									#9
	Re: Re: Piecing together the civs and their leaders... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by joseph1944 The Airplane is a F-15 and not F-16.

Bah! What's a difference of one between friends?

Yeah, I got the impression that it would be a native North American civ of some kind, although I was not too clear which; Iroquois looked the most likely to me.

Good contribution on the leaders Serapis. I have put down the ones who are known from the animations. We will have to piece the rest together as we get new screenshots and stuff...

	14-06-2001 16:48									#10
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"English - Elizabeth I"

Why do Civ games never use Victoria?

	14-06-2001 17:37									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch "English - Elizabeth I" Why do Civ games never use Victoria?

Victoria would be good, but when she was Queen, a lot of her power was devolved through parliament and never really directed the country per se. I think this is why Liz I is preferred, because she was responsible for defeating the Spanish Armada and the start of the era of the British Navy being the largest in the world and consequently the start of the empire.

	14-06-2001 19:57									#12
	Re: Re: Re: Piecing together the civs and their leaders... Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Bah! What's a difference of one between friends?

F-15 has 2 Heckruder, F-16 has only one

don't ask me what that means in English, but it's the most significant difference, at least for the first look.

Well done, Provost, but I think we've already had some overview of the civs included... just not as detailed as yours, nice work.

	14-06-2001 21:13									#13
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Good work Provost- just wondering- how long did it take you to compile this?

	15-06-2001 02:34									#14
	Re: Re: Re: Piecing together the civs and their leaders... Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Bah! What's a difference of one between friends? Yeah, I got the impression that it would be a native North American civ of some kind, although I was not too clear which; Iroquois looked the most likely to me.

(laughing)
The F-15 was made by McDonnell-Douglas and the F-16 was made by General Dynamics Corp. These company would be complaining because each would claim to be the best fighter and the other is just OK. The F-15 has two tails (vertical stabilizers) and the F-16 has one tail.
Actually we now have only 3 aircraft manufacture left in the US. Boeing is heading up one group. General Dynamics head up another group and Northrop out there by themselves. However Northrop has a contract with one of the above groups to build something. I have all 42 volumes of World Airpower and I could look up all the mergers, but a little lazy right now.
Yes I to believed it will be the Iroquois because of the leader picture. (Just wait and Firaxis will come out and said we are all wrong on which tribe will be in the game.)

	15-06-2001 03:28									#15
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I don't know what Firaxis is planning, but if I were going to pick a male leader for the native americans I'd pick Tecumsah. He out together an alliance of nearly a dozen tribes spanning from Michigan to Alabama in an attempt to halt the westward movement of the Americans. Unfortunately William Harrison struck before he was fully ready.
I hope they don't pick Pocahantas as the female leader, at least not the Disney version. If she leaps from ther screen singing "Colors of the Wind" I'll be forced to utterly terminate her civilization with "extreme prejudice".

	15-06-2001 04:01									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Victoria would be good .... never really directed the country per se.

Neither did Joan D'Arc.

I would prefer Vicki, as she is synonymous with the British Empire at its height. What more can you ask for from a Civ leader?

	15-06-2001 06:41									#17
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I know how to settle who will be leader of England. Our leader should be King Aedwin of Northumbria and Bregusind. He was king during 614 AD time frame. Also he was the Uncle of St. Hild (614 A.D. to 680 A.D.) who is known at Saxon Goddess of War. Maybe some of our English friends who are History Buff can fill us in on King Aedwin and St. Hild.
Now for some real fun. It turns out that King Aedwin is one of my ancestor either as a Uncle or Grandfather. 2 of his later family in 1634 left England for the U.S. There is over 5,000 family in the U.S. that still carry the family name. Since Elizabeth is German maybe we should return to England and claim the Throne. As lease I'm almost 50% saxon.

Last edited by on 15-06-2001 at 06:54

	15-06-2001 08:55									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

I would be really happy if these are the 16 civs. Although, I would like to have seen a South American Civ included, just for the sake of playing on World Map.

	15-06-2001 13:37									#19
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Very true BC I suppose. I suppose they are both very important figureheads in their own right, more embody the spirit of a nation rather than lead them.

DarkCloud, I had all this stuff swimming around in my head so it actually didn't take me all that long. I just remember looking at screenshots and making mental notes of things that were there. I remember a lot of the cities from Civ/Civ2 so I could attribute a civ to them as soon as I saw them. And picking things out of the video quite quickly. Snapcase has some nice pictures of special units, as well as those released by Firaxis. It was just a matter of typing it all down and remembering everything.

	15-06-2001 14:42									#20
	Re: Re: Piecing together the civs and their leaders... Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Catherine the Great or Stalin, I'd guess Stalin, but again, the whole politically correct thing...

Stalin or Peter the Great for male leaders, Catherine might come into play. Would love to see Suvorov, Kutuzov or Zhukov as military leaders.
PCorrectness really sucks. I mean, who better to represent Russians than a bloodthirsty dictator..... Peter fits the bill too...hehe

	15-06-2001 18:10									#21
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http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/vie...s/civ3e3p18.jpg

Dont that picture confirm Alexander as the Greek leader?

As for Stalin: I think its the same as having Hitler as the German leader=Bad idea!
More "Anti-christ" is hard to find...

	15-06-2001 18:17									#22
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Absolutely spot on there, failed to notice that. Updated first post in thread.

	15-06-2001 18:24									#23
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Oops, PH, looks like you're doing double work. Paiktis, myself and others have been running our own threads on this matter for quite a while already: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...30&pagenumber=3

	15-06-2001 18:42									#24
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quote: As for Stalin: I think its the same as having Hitler as the German leader=Bad idea! More "Anti-christ" is hard to find...

Hmmm, the chinese have Mao as their leader. (confirmed)
Mao is the biggest murder in history ! Millions of chinese people starved under his regime.

If Mao is in the game, I see no reason why they would leave out Stalin because of the pc thing.

	15-06-2001 18:59									#25
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My guess would still be Catherine because she is the most famous and skillful female leader of all time, and since they want more female leaders Catherine the Great is the obvious choice.

I still think Boadicea should be queen of the brits...

	15-06-2001 19:05									#26
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Well...they could just use Lennin for Russia then, he wasn't that bad, wasn't there nearly as long...but oh well.

	15-06-2001 19:10									#27
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Yes i guess Mao was bad too...most of them was really bad when i think of it...but then again its a game of world domination...and you wouldnt win with a soft attitude..

I think Peter the Great should be the Russian leader...he did most for the emerging nation and their expansion into a major power in European politics.

	15-06-2001 19:12									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Rollo_CH http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/vie...s/civ3e3p18.jpg Dont that picture confirm Alexander as the Greek leader? As for Stalin: I think its the same as having Hitler as the German leader=Bad idea! More "Anti-christ" is hard to find...

Now, now, a typical piece of revisionist history. Absolutely no one can or shall be compared with a man who basically planned to turn whole nations into soap.
Even Churchill admitted in his speach to the Parliament that Stalin 'inherited Russia with a plough and left it with a nuclear bomb'. Hitler left Germany in ruins.
As for Stalin's human rights record, well, let's judge him against his times (just like we do in the case of Genghis Khan and Peter the Great).

Oh one more thing, I propose Dubbya as one's American leader on Deity level (for HP). What a guy....

	15-06-2001 20:08									#29
	Re: Re: Re: Piecing together the civs and their leaders... Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by LaRusso Stalin or Peter the Great for male leaders, Catherine might come into play. Would love to see Suvorov, Kutuzov or Zhukov as military leaders. PCorrectness really sucks. I mean, who better to represent Russians than a bloodthirsty dictator..... Peter fits the bill too...hehe

Then we ought to put Hitler as the german leader???

	15-06-2001 20:11									#30
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So a lot of these leaders are not really nice, what's wrong with that? Would you rather Attila the Nun?

I know that old Abe is a Civ Classic, but he was a "unificator" with a lot of blood on his hands - it was hardly Our Fiinest Hour, except maybe for the Emancipation Proclamation, and are we really sure that was policy and not strategy? I don't know if I have any great suggestions instead (Washington would be kind of boring too). Maybe someone like Teddy Roosevelt?

Perhaps we could use a little more diversity away from military/historical types too. Ghandi and Tecumseh are cool, but we could have more in non-military directions. What about Confusious, Budda, Moses, Christ, Pythagoras, Mohammed, Pope somebody-or-other, Socrates, Lao Tzu, Oddyseus, Mars, Thor, Grendel's Mother, Prometheus, Clark Kent, ......