14-06-2001 11:25									#1
	Balancing Science Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Most people can complete the civ 2 science tree around the 1700's or earlier. Which leaves nearly over 25% of the game with boring future techs.

I think that it should only be possible to complete the tech tree at the end of the game. Science could be controlled by a special module; if a civ gets great science in the early game, then it's much harder for them to continue and their science turns into happiness and econnomy ect. However if a civ gets poor science in the early game, later on their science could get boosted at the price of economy. This way science will be evened out and won't be wrecked by future techs.

	14-06-2001 12:42									#2
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I have one word to sum up this idea "TERRIBLE". No, just joking but I really don't like it at all.

	14-06-2001 13:49									#3
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But then you are making all civilisations equal in tech research rate, which is not a good idea either. You need something like the 'Tech Stagnation' option in SMAC which increases the amount of research needed to acquire a tech, globally...

	14-06-2001 14:56									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Having exhausted the tech tree by 1700 you have probably already won the game. If you continue playing after you have won, you can expect some boredom...

It should be quite easy to make the problem (if it is a problem) less obvious by setting a "earliest year" on each tech, and halving the research rate when you try to discover techs "before their time".

Of course, I'd rather let all civs pay double for any tech advances that has not already been discovered by at least one other civ, and half for techs that every other civ already have discovered...

	14-06-2001 15:39									#5
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Omada,
your second idea is really good, making it more difficult to discover totally new techs, and easier to discover what everyone else already knows... I'd say it's exactly what is needed.

Setting dates for each tech is a bit too restricitve, history is what is mafe in Civ, it shouldn't be controlled by the History we just happen to have on Earth...

One refinement? if someone else is also researching the same tech as you are (but no-one actually has it), then maybe that should count as it not being too far ahead, and the 50% penalty shouldn't apply, after all if another Civ is researching it then it can't be too far ahead.


Pingu:

	14-06-2001 16:39									#6
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Pingu,

Hardwiring techs to some timeline would be against my perception of what civ is all about too, but the original poster didn't like running out of advances several hundred years before the end of the game.

Plus, you could always edit rules.txt and set the "earliest year" for all techs to 4000 BCE...


About the suggested refinement: Maybe I'm getting mean and grumpy in my old age, but I think it should cost an arm and a leg to be on the bleeding edge...

Anyway, as soon as one of the civs gets the tech, the other civs pays the normal rate the rest of the way. If they are already 90% done, tough cookies!

	14-06-2001 17:42									#7
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I agree Omada. If you are finding it all too easy, move up a difficulty level. But you should also be able to change some parameters about the game, such as a sliding scale of tech cost for all sides. The greater it is, the more research you need to put in to acquire a tech. The thing is that by the end of a game, the tech rate is often so high for a civilisation that it may be feasible to increase the cost of some of the later techs by at least double, perhaps even more.

	14-06-2001 19:21									#8
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when i really want a challenge, i play diety, and only build 5-7 cities.

its a little bit harder to keep up in the science department.

	14-06-2001 20:20									#9
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What, none of you ever fiddled with the rules.txt file? You can make science cost more from there, or you can even do so from the scenario menu (I think).

	14-06-2001 21:09									#10
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Omada's idea is great for solving this problem.

	15-06-2001 23:03									#11
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Good ideas for increasing the cost of cutting-edge research. A touch of realism that won't hinder gameplay.

I'd like to see Future Techs that actually did something other than run up your score. Say every fifth (or randomly assigned) F.T. would do represent a "breakthrough" along the lines of:

Increase movement -- ships or airplanes (but not land units) get an additional 1 point movement.
Increase function of buildings. For example, each bank provides an additional 5% increase in revenue. Each library increases science output by another 5%. Each hydro plant provides an additional 5% industry.
Increase attack/ defense strength of unit types (land/sea/air) by 5%

This would be particularly interesting in scenarios like Global Apocalypse where all but 2 or 3 discoveries are already made at the start. In such cases, there would be a reason to keep researching new techs . . .