03-07-2000 04:31									#1
	OCC conquest Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

How about an OCC conquest challenge?

Rules:
1. Large wold map, large land mass, varied land mass (ie, between continents and archipellago Raging hoards.
2. first city must be taken, not built.
3. all non-units must be disbanded immediately upon conquest of the first city.
4. only non units allowed after this are 1 settler and boats. All others disbanded immediately.
5. No tribute or gifts allowed.
6. Other than the first city you take, you may not conquer a city. Only destroy it. Exception. If and only if the city has walls,
you may conquer it, then immediately set all citizens to entertainers and switch production to a settler as soon as the city gets to size 1. If the settler produced is a non unit, it must be disbanded.

7. No city bribes.

8. After taking your first city, no other AI city must be attacked if that civ does not have Feudalism, or if you have gun powder, than gunpouder also.

9. You must be in Democracy by 1400 A.D., republic by 500 A.D.

10. Now for the fun part. Your one city may not be coastal. HAHAHAHAHA!!!

	03-07-2000 07:48									#2
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hehehe..I think rules 3,6,8,9 and 10 make this impossible.I could be wrong though.At least unit bribes are allowed since thats the only way you'd ever see a boat.

	03-07-2000 09:38									#3
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I believe that it was Ming who once said that reaching AC on the tiniest possible map would be impossible because you couldn't get the tech necessary in time with so few cities.


A very difficult challenge this would be indeed. Impossible? Not likely. I tried to find the thread posted by Geofelt that first gave birth to the OCC thing, but was unable. Perhaps it is gone. but once mentioned, how long did it take for this challenge to be met? (I hope it's not deleted. It should be saved for historical reasons.)

I'm sure someone could do it though. This one might actually take a couple of months to be accomplished, but I'm certain it can be done. In fact, I think I made it too easy. Which reminds me of a rule I forgot.

11. No Shakespears Theatre. Otherwise, how much of a disadvantage would democracy be?

	03-07-2000 13:37									#4
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Hmmm...this would be very difficult, if it is possible.

One main possibility problem I see is that you have to get a boat without having a coastal city (since the chances of all ais being on one continous landmass aren't good). Yes, you could bribe a barb or ai boat, but that is hardly a common event.

My hunch is, if this is possible, it would be a little easier if you build King Richard's crusade early...

Hmmm...you say no city bribe, but unit bribes okay, if they don't generate non-units? How about dips in cluster around your first city, to bribe anything that comes near? Hmmm...

Interesting challenge, Matt. I wonder how long it will take RAH or Ming to beat this

-KhanMan the LLSS

	03-07-2000 13:42									#5
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Here's another problem: Democratic governments are, as you know, notoriously hard to start wars with. If you follow rules 8 and 9, and encounter a civ without feudalism while you are in republic, you have to give it to them, and yet still be able to attack. Without the tricks to start a war in demo/rep (UN, occuying territory, diplomatic attacks, etc.), it may not be possible to start a war in these rules.

If you take out 8 and 9, or 7 and 10, or 11, or 3, it would be do-able. I don't know, with things as they stand.

-KhanMan

	03-07-2000 17:53									#7
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Or maybe you were looking for this thread. This was started by geofelt as you mentioned.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited July 03, 2000).]

	03-07-2000 18:11									#8
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I don't think it would be impossible... after a while, you guys should get the hang of it and start winning by 1600 or something. Remember when you thought OCC was impossible/very hard???

	04-07-2000 09:02									#9
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Yes, the rules do make it very difficult. That's the point. You will either have to wait for the AI or barbs to have an empty boat nearby. You may even need to let an AI you share a continent with live long enough to build a trireme or 2 that you can bribe. It will likely take quite a few tries to manage this. Actually if there is only 1 AI on your continent you may very well need to allow it to build a second city before taking the first. That way it can be alive to build you a trireme or 2 to bribe, or to coax a barbarian to unload a trireme near one of its cities.


As far as wars being hard to start in Democracy, that's nothing compared to dealing with the unhappiness problem you will face every time you try to amass enough troops for a half way decent attack. You'd best find some way to win before you have to go to Democracy. He he he he.